Leading Edge takes over Alien!
Hello and welcome to episode 286 of Effect, Leading Edge Takes Over Alien. I'm Dave.
Matthew:And I'm Matthew. And that's a blast of the past, that voice. I haven't had a cohost like that for weeks. How are you, Dave?
Dave:I thought you're blast of the past for the name of Leading Edge, but no, obviously not. I'm good. I'm well, I'm I I am good, actually.
Matthew:Yeah. About your holiday in
Dave:My holiday in Rhodes was absolutely stunning. I I read every book I took with me from cover to cover. I finally read The Road by Cormac McCarthy, which I read in a day. I mean, it's quite a short book anyway, but it
Matthew:was It is.
Dave:Yes. It was brilliant. It just didn't I didn't want to put it down. Interesting
Matthew:Reading it in the sun by the pool is possibly the best
Dave:place Yeah. To do Exactly. Although, I mean, no spoilers. It wasn't the it wasn't the sole the ending wasn't as soul crushing as I was expecting it to be. Although it's quite there is yeah.
Dave:Anyway, so but I I I did make me wonder. So did you take any inspiration from the road when you wrote Song of the Siren?
Matthew:No. That's an interesting analogy.
Dave:Because there was because there
Dave:was a No.
Matthew:I don't think
Dave:there was a
Matthew:Well, not any conscious inspiration.
Dave:Okay. Because there's a sea there's a scene in the road that it's very brief, but it's there, which is basically playing directly into what the bad guys are doing in the song of the siren.
Matthew:Oh, what? In terms of of Eating people.
Dave:Of farming people and cutting their legs off and stuff. Yeah.
Matthew:You know, that inspiration, the inspiration for that came out of the most amazing and actually really quite good Keanu Reeves movie Reeves movie that you've never seen on a tiny budget. He guest starred. And it was called Badlands, I think. Okay. If I can find a link, I'll put a link in the show notes into it.
Matthew:And it's low budget. Yep. But a whole bunch of inspiration for that came you know, remember they were going around on kinda go golf carts
Dave:Yeah.
Matthew:When they came to capture you? And I should say, this is the podcast version. The actual play version you can hear on our podcast from years ago. Not the the siren that's available to buy on a drive thru RPG. That is a much shrunk down version.
Matthew:But, yeah. No. Most of the inspiration from that came from this film, which may or may not be called Badlands, but does have a guest starring Keanianu Reeves in it. And somebody else quite famous guest stars in it in quite a weird role. I think oh, no.
Matthew:I can't remember. I will I'll put links in the show notes if I can find it.
Dave:But yes, so I had a lovely holiday. Thank you. I am now back. There are I'll talk about other stuff in in world of gaming, I think, a little bit. But you've completely missed out what we are going to talk about today, mate.
Matthew:Oh, yeah. That's my job, isn't it?
Dave:That is your job. Okay.
Matthew:So, yes. We have a number of items in this episode. Yeah. I wouldn't call it a packed episode, but it's nicely replete, shall we say.
Dave:It's it's it's got an elegant sufficiency of content, I think, is what we're saying.
Matthew:It is. Yes. It we we have Stuart Hawkes and sure. No. Sorry.
Matthew:We have a new patron whose name shall not be revealed until the section where we mention his name.
Dave:Except, well
Matthew:Which will be coming shortly. We've got just a few interesting, and it feels to me vaguely connected sort of items in the world of gaming.
Dave:Very familiar.
Matthew:And then and then we have an interview with your old friend of mine, Jonathan Hicks. And I noticed I've got old world Old West News on the running order with nothing against it. I shouldn't even have that heading because I don't think we've got any Old West News to report.
Dave:Not though not specifically. There there is there is tangential stuff there, though.
Matthew:Right. Okay.
Dave:Which is
Matthew:Well, I'll leave that up to you then. Yeah. So, first of all on that list, who is our mysterious new bacon?
Dave:Could he be called Stuart? I wonder.
Matthew:Yeah. You're right. Welcome, Stuart Hawkes. Now, Stuart has joined us first and is is here for the exclusive content. He said some very nice things about your alien material, Dave.
Matthew:That you know, that you publish your other books and wants to get in on some of the juicy stuff that we've got in in available to our patrons. For example, the the the latest thing I've put up there was the the big adventure that that we did at UK Games Expo, The epic adventure for Alien. Is that what I'm looking for? All hands on deck.
Dave:All hands on deck. Yep.
Matthew:And that is available to everyone. Some of our content is only available to you if you're at a silver level or above, but I think that's available to everybody. Anyway, that's By the By. Thank you very much, Stuart, for your support.
Dave:Absolutely. You
Matthew:have not yet, though, as far as I can see, joined the Discord unless you've joined with a name that I don't recognize. So do get your Discord identity plugged into your profile on on Patreon Patreon, and it and then the bots will take over and you'll be magically joined to our Discord.
Dave:It'll be great to see you there. And thank you so much for your support. As as always, thank you everybody who supports us currently, in the past, and hopefully in the future.
Matthew:Cool.
Matthew:Right. Shall we crack on with the world of gaming? Mhmm. Yeah. Okay.
Matthew:So another one of our patrons, actually, Paul spotted this. Monty Python's co curricular medieval reenactment program, a role playing game, no, it isn't, is available from a UK retailer for the incredible price of £5. This is a relatively new game. It only came out, it feels to be months ago. So I'm surprised to see it offered at such a discount.
Matthew:But if you want you wanna get it at that price, you gotta move quickly because they've only got 1,181 copies in stock.
Dave:Yeah. It's it's it's one that we've sort of talked about before. It's not one that I I will ever play. It's not I'm you know, I'm a big fan of Monty Python, but it's not something we talked about it before. It's not something I think work can work really well as a role playing game or a game at the table, largely because, you know, it's kind of telling you you must have fun and you must laugh and you must make Monty Python jokes.
Dave:And if you don't, then gonna be like a bit of a bit of a damp squib. And again, it's
Matthew:I've got a
Dave:It's not in my wheelhouse either because that's not the that's not why I role play. I role play for the stories and the drama and the interesting stories and the characters.
Matthew:Not And they're not like the clock news jokes?
Dave:Not really. Well, and and blackadder quotes. Yeah. But not really for I want yeah. Our sessions are great fun, as they should be, but they're not fun because the game is saying, make a joke about the game and that's how you have fun.
Dave:The game is really fun. The drama is really fun. I love all that. But us as a group have fun in and around that as part of the whole environment of of getting together to role play.
Matthew:And indeed, we may well quote Monty Python
Dave:or Absolutely.
Matthew:Blackadder or Not The Hagglot News, and have a good old laugh about it. But that's not part of the game. That is
Dave:Just us.
Matthew:Ancillary to the game. Yeah.
Matthew:Yeah.
Dave:So that's kind of why I I was never in for this, and I won't be in for it for a fiver either, frankly. I've got you know, it's not something I I particularly want want to own.
Matthew:Too little self space, not enough time.
Dave:And just not enough interest, frankly, for
Matthew:the All interest.
Dave:Yeah. But, I it did well. I mean, it was a year ago, July 20 07/20/2025, when their Kickstarter was last updated, so it would have finished before then. And they did very well. They've got 15,000 backers.
Dave:So obviously, there's a lot of people out there who were who who who disagree with me on this one and were Mhmm. Interested to play the game. And I'm sure they've all had a lot of fun with it. But, yeah, I said not for not for me.
Matthew:Okay. So I'm not selling it to you, but I may be selling it to Yeah. And I guess I ought to say, I don't know. This is at dungeonland.co.uk. We'll put the link in the show notes.
Matthew:They also sell our game, it's worth saying. Not at that discount though, and they only sell to The UK. So I think it's only an offer that's available to our UK listeners.
Dave:I think I would also want to say, apropos of our little conversation before we started recording, that Dungeon Land have made an error on their on their website. So they they're doing a bundle, call book and GM screen. Absolutely fine. Cool. Crack on, guys.
Dave:The GM screen that they've put up on their on their image is wrong. So we're gonna have a word with them and get them to change it. But if you go and look at it, that is not us, the GM screen. So ignore that. Our GM screen is a lot better than that, and everything mentioned on that GM screen has nothing to do with our game.
Dave:So we need I don't want people going there seeing that and saying, oh that GM screen looks a bit shit, What's all this about? And then not buying it, because they think it's something not as good as it Yeah. It really is. So we can have a quick word with them and just ask them to to correct that little error.
Matthew:Yeah. When they're open, and we can phone them up.
Dave:Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
Matthew:Anyway, let us move on to the next item.
Matthew:But, yeah,
Dave:I mean, interesting though. I mean, on the Monty Python thing, I mean, I guess the fact that it's a five pound offer means they want to shift that stock.
Matthew:Yeah.
Dave:They've got quite a lot of stock in there. I'm I'm we're wondering as well, I wonder whether whether Dungeon Land act as exalted
Matthew:Exalted funeral funerals.
Dave:Distributors in The UK. Yeah. Because otherwise, why would they have so much stock? That's a hell of a lot of stock to have for a retailer. But, yeah.
Dave:So if you want it, I mean, go and get it for a fiver. I mean, frankly, if they're that desperate to get rid of it, could probably call them up and say, I'll give you £3 for it, and they'd probably say, yeah. So
Matthew:Maybe. Maybe. I do like the fact that there's a message on there saying, this comes with a PDF, but if you accept this, you waive the fourteen day cooling off period that applies to our other products. Oh. Oh, which is interesting.
Matthew:Which means they yeah. And they may that that's a European regulation that there's got to be a fourteen day cooling off period. So it may be that if you're in Europe, you can order from Dungeon Land as well. Oh, yeah. And and get it there.
Matthew:Yeah. Anyway. Right. Cool. Yeah.
Matthew:Proper next item now. Atlas Games. Now this is interesting. So I listen to a much better better podcast than this one, which is Ken and Robin talking about stuff. Obviously, much better is is a relative term because we're fabulous.
Dave:Oh, yeah. I'm I'm I'm resisting commenting on you running down our own podcast on our own podcast, but, you know Yeah.
Matthew:We're nothing if not self deprecating, Dave.
Dave:It's you self deprecating. That's a first.
Matthew:They have a relatively regular sponsor of Atlas Games. I have bought stuff that they have advertised. I have not bought because I don't think a little bit like Monty Python's co curricular medieval reenactment program. I don't think Magical Kitties is quite in my wheelhouse. It's a family RPG of well, Magical Kitties, I think.
Dave:Magical Kitties Save the Day, I think, is the full title, isn't it?
Matthew:Yeah. Well, they've got a couple of fun there. I think there's now a There was a super magical kitties game as well. Anyway. Yeah.
Matthew:So you are a cat looking after the human world by going around your neighborhood having adventures. I'm assuming using magic. However, they've just put that under an open creative license. Commons, not comments license. Open creative commons license.
Matthew:So now anybody can make magical kitty stuff. And I was thinking, you know, we've done something similar. Not creative comments but we've done an open license. And I think, you know, that's quite an issue. If you're a small company, churning out content for your game is kind of hard, and I really want other people to churn out content for hours.
Dave:Yeah. No, again I think I mean No, that's a fair point. That is a good point. I When we were talking about doing the Made in the Old West license for us, for our stuff, I was I was less I was less concerned about the lack of other content out there, because we're obviously working on stuff, and more interested in just letting people have a go if they wanted to. Yeah.
Dave:But actually, the corollary of that, the the, you know, the unintended or perhaps intended consequence of that is that there is more more more content out there for anybody else who doesn't want to make their own, which is always gonna be a good thing.
Matthew:Yeah.
Dave:Yeah. But they yes. I mean, they they they got 1,500 backers nearly for Magical Kitties Save the Day, which is cool. Again, I mean, it's it's not it's not really necessarily one that, you know, we're gonna play or I'm gonna play. I'm not gonna buy it.
Dave:But it'll be interesting. I mean, if I was at a convention and I had time and there was a game going, I might sit down and have a go of it.
Matthew:Just
Dave:because it does sound quite silly and hopefully quite funny.
Matthew:More so than Monty Python's game?
Dave:Yes. Absolutely. More so. Because I think there's less pressure. I think the Monty Python game puts pressure on you to be like Monty Python, and very few people could be like Monty Python, which is why Monty Python were Monty Python.
Matthew:And, yes.
Dave:Yeah, I just as side, I just saw I just saw the other day, it came up on my I was looking for something on YouTube, and John Cleese's eulogy for Graham Chapman came up. So I watched it again. I've seen it before. It's only a couple of minutes, but it's it's brilliant. And and and obviously Graham John Cleese is is slagging off Graham Chapman, and then and then saying at the end, and the only the only reason I've got for doing that is I know Graham would never ever forgive me if I passed up such an opportunity to do so.
Dave:Brilliant. If if yeah. If you're interested, it's really it's really quite touching. It's only a couple of minutes long, Yeah. That was a digression.
Dave:So, yeah. So a magical kitties is something I would probably, you know, it'd be just fun to sit down and have a go for a couple of hours. But, again, with a similar kind of feel to Toon. So, don't know why I backed Steve Jackson Games new edition of Toon, but I did.
Matthew:Nostalgia, mate. Nostalgia. That's what drives half the industry.
Dave:Obviously, nostalgia. And I don't think I'll ever say to you guys, oh yeah, let's have a game of Toon. But again, if I was at a convention and there was a game of Toon going on, and I had the time and there was a space for me to just slip into, then I'd I would, you know, I'd quite happily have another go. But yeah, it's it's yeah. It's weird.
Dave:It's just me.
Matthew:Which brings us on to another game, which is, you know, there there's this thing, isn't there? Magical kitties kind
Dave:of,
Matthew:I want to say, kind of cartoony, like an animated movie. And this new game is coming from Chaosium, which, of course, are kind of the oldest of old schools being, I think now, the oldest surviving continuously producing company in the whole industry, you know, who have, if not the oldest, like the second or third or fourth oldest system being basic role playing as their house system. Everything they've done, you know, be it it Call of Cthulhu or Pendragon, has kind of been based on okay. I'm gonna I'm immediately thinking of games that aren't based on this. They were running seventh c for a while, so that wasn't obviously wasn't a BRP system.
Matthew:But a lot a lot of their games, most of their games, most of their role playing games are basic role playing. But they've just announced a new one that isn't, and that is called Time Without Tide. And just the the illustrations for that are a lot more cartoony, shall we say, than anything I've ever seen coming out of Chaosium.
Dave:Yeah. Yeah. It's yeah. So
Matthew:You're struggling to find words to describe it, I
Dave:can say. I'm I'm I'm struggling to find the the way of of of getting across what I want to say without being too
Matthew:Rude.
Dave:Pokey. Yeah. They've definitely or it certainly feels like they've drawn an awful lot of inspiration from a couple of Free League games.
Matthew:Yeah. There is that.
Dave:One one is Forbidden Lands. So Time Without Tide, the basic premise behind it is the moon has crashed to earth. I'll have a conversation with you about that in a moment. There's fog all over the over the earth. It's kind of a steampunk vibe, which I don't really like anyway.
Dave:And you go and explore into the mist, into the fog, having mirth and misery to to find stuff. And as part of that, you do what they're calling is a delve. So those listeners who who know the first thing about free league games will know will immediately have thought of three free league games that there are echoes here. Yeah. It looks it looks lovely.
Dave:The artwork looks lovely. Again, it's like you say, it's quite cartoony. I think the book is gonna be, you know, be a really lovely looking book just from what they've got on the Kickstarter, on the back of kit page. But yeah, it's Also, it looks like it's going to be a d six die not necessarily a dice ball, but a d six based system rather than the VIP From d 100 based what I can see, there's not a lot of official information.
Matthew:There's not much information So
Dave:that might that might be wrong, but that seems to be the feeling I'm getting, which again, which is absolutely fine. But yeah, so you've got mirth and mayhem not mirth and mayhem, sorry. Mirth and misery. Mirth and mayhem being dragon vein. You've got mists and you are you know, people going into the mists to loot stuff.
Dave:That sounds a bit Forbidden Lands. And then you've got delving, which sounds a bit great dark.
Matthew:Caveat is great dark. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just gonna sign up for the Bloomin mailing list and see what I get.
Matthew:Oh, dear. He wants me to reserve my spot for $33. You know what? I'm not gonna do that. Anyway But,
Dave:yeah, they're even they're talking about, you know, make the delver you want. So obviously, the delving into the fog or delving into dungeons to find stuff is is obviously a key element of the game, is a key driver behind what's going on. I mean, interestingly, I mean, we've had some comments from some of our patrons and others that delving in the great dark can become a bit like homework and a bit hard work, particularly if the delve is a very big one. It'd be interesting to see whether they do something, like, philosophically different to manage the delves in this game. But but, yeah, I feel like I've been doing a lot of talking here, mate.
Matthew:Yeah. Well, you know, the reason you've been doing a lot of talking is because having put my email address in, I was given a link to download the quick start, which I'm now looking at.
Dave:Cool. Cool.
Matthew:So I'm I'm sure trying to see quite what the system is in terms of actually what you roll your dice with. But let me let me just talk you through what I'm seeing. I'm I'm skimming through Yep. As quickly as I can. You have three traits, mind, body, and will, scored from one to five.
Matthew:Wherever I heard that before? And then you've got skills. Now I'm not entirely sure how many skills you have. It it it mentions either six skills or six categories of skills which are culture, industry, navigation, skullduggery, survival, and violence. I think it's probably just those six skills.
Matthew:And each has its own score ranging from zero to five. Again, where have I heard that before? So we're gonna end up, I imagine
Dave:This is standing on a dice pool, isn't it?
Matthew:Dice pool. Bunk, who's one of the characters, has four body and three violence. He's really good at hitting monsters. So I have a sneaking suspicion he may roll seven dice, but I haven't actually seen the bit where the the dice are being rolled. This is a build a die yeah.
Matthew:To find the test, build a dice ball at the score of your relevant trait and skill and gather that many dice.
Dave:Okay.
Matthew:If an ally is assisting, they increase your dice ball by half their score in the relevant skill rounded up. So if you haven't got a skill in it, you can't assist. Where have I heard that before? However, if you've got a skill of four, say, you can contribute
Dave:two Two dice.
Matthew:Dice. Yeah. And then roll your dice pool and count each five or six as one tally mark and ignore all the other results. And then I guess the the the the test has got a certain number of successes you've
Dave:Tally's got to to reach. Yeah.
Matthew:Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So there we go.
Dave:Is there is there a is there a reroll option?
Matthew:You succeed the test if you roll as many or more marks than the test difficulty. You fail if you roll fewer. Either way, work with your keeper to denote the outcome. Bend boon surplus marks can give you other things, but it doesn't look like it's a reroll. But neither should there be a reroll if effectively they've doubled the chance of success.
Dave:Yes, absolutely. Yeah, yeah.
Matthew:Because they've doubled the chance of success. And doubling comes at no cost. After you roll your dice, Paul, if the dice haven't produced as many marks as you'd like, you can choose to strain the test. Collect and reroll, sorry. Correct.
Matthew:Collect and reroll any dice from your pool, including bonus dice if you're being assisted, to try and create some more marks. After the strained test resolves, you take one mind damage as the mental tax for your efforts. You can only strain a test once. Assisting creatures aren't damaged. Straining a potent tool to resist the whims of chance.
Matthew:Right. There we go. Yeah.
Dave:You can't
Matthew:push your hole, but you can strain it.
Dave:You can strain. This says more about me than anything else, but the minute you said strain, I kinda had visions of sitting on the toilet after a particularly bad curry the night before.
Matthew:It does say it says a lot about you and your digestive system.
Dave:That's well, that's fine. I'm I'm happy to be open with all our friends on the podcast. That's fine. They might not be happy with me being that open, but it's too late now. Okay.
Dave:So it's it's year zero engine, guys.
Matthew:Yeah.
Dave:Yeah. I mean, I guess it's it's a testament to perhaps how good the year zero engine is that everybody is now using it. Including us, because we used exactly it, you know. But at least we didn't make a pretence of coming up with something else and then
Matthew:We we used the best iteration of the year zero engine.
Dave:Remember that? That's That is true. Yeah.
Matthew:And that and it's not us saying that. Well, it is us repeating it quite often, but it's somebody else who said it first.
Dave:Yeah. Well, he was he was, you know, a professional reviewer for
Matthew:a And that's your reviewer in a magazine. Exactly.
Dave:Yeah. Which was very nice. So yeah, so there's Time Without Tide. So the thing I was going to talk about Now, obviously, Time Without Tide is not a kind of a future simulationist kind of game. It's not, you know But they talk about the moon falling down.
Dave:We all know we all know that if the moon falls down, which is it's not going to unless it gets hit by something, then the earth is is or humanity on the earth is done for. So you you you encouraged me to read Seveneves Yeah. Which was which is a very good read except for the very last kind of segment, which got really boring. But up to that point, it was great. But basically, if the moon comes down, it's gonna burn up.
Dave:The amount of stuff burning up in the atmosphere is gonna basically set the planet on fire, and everything on the planet is going to die, pretty much. I just thought I'd throw that in, seeing that doesn't seem to have happened in this world. Time without tide, it doesn't seem to have destroyed the entire planet. That's not the point. It's it's not a like I said, it's not a scientific game, it's a it's a game for a bit of fun.
Dave:But, yeah, I again, it so it looks the artwork looks lovely. I think the book is gonna be a lovely thing to hold. It's really nicely done. I'm not a big fan of steampunk, particularly.
Matthew:No. We bounced off steampunk. I love the idea of steampunk.
Dave:Yeah. Mean, I enjoyed Airship Pirates for the short Yeah. Run we had on it. And I like love my character. That was fun, but it's not a genre that just automatically appeals to me.
Dave:Sometimes it feels a bit like it's thrown on just as a bit of a conceit. Oh, look how exciting and different it is. It's steampunk. It's like, well, why? Why?
Dave:Why steampunk? You know? Yeah. Anyway, I know some people love it, but I say it it's it's not something that's ever really drawn me in either to No.
Matthew:And and I keep wanting to love it. And, you know, keep it's not just I've I've run Space 1889 Yeah. Doesn't before now.
Dave:In the slightest, frankly.
Matthew:Yeah. Yeah. And oh, there's a new version of that, by the way. It's five e. You can ignore it.
Dave:Yeah. I I that wasn't on the list of things to talk about, but we can talk about that if you want.
Matthew:No. Let's not bother. Yeah. But but, you know, I I I I I have previously thought, oh, stinkbunk. That sounds fun.
Matthew:Run a few sessions and then not. Give up. I don't like it. I don't like it. It doesn't work for me.
Dave:I think the other thing I just wanted to briefly mention is so the game is called Time Without Tide, and part of the background is that the moon is no longer there.
Matthew:So that's what's that's what was telling
Dave:But if the whole game is called Time Without Tide, how is that the most relevant thing to what the experience of the game is? Or is it just a fancy title and they thought, oh, I love the title. How do we make that? Oh, yeah. Let's get rid of the moon.
Dave:There's no tides. So
Matthew:Yeah. That's an interesting thing, isn't it? Because that title doesn't really say much about
Dave:No. If it's a
Matthew:fantasy What you do or what the world is.
Dave:Just just to have a nice title. And I like the title. I think the title is cool. But then, surely, the fact that the world is without the tide has to mean something, has to be a critical element of how people, you know, live now or how things are affected by the fact that there are no tides. Yeah.
Dave:And there's nothing in any of this that that really tells me anything about that.
Matthew:There might be in the quick start. Do you want me to have a look at that?
Dave:If you wish, you have
Matthew:a quick start. No. No. Let's stop. Let's The quick start is available.
Matthew:Sign up, put your email address in, and then you can click a link and get this quick start. I think it may be worth people having a look at actually. Layout is nice and clear as far as I can see. I thought you wouldn't like the art. I would I was expecting you to say the art was too cartoony.
Matthew:But perhaps
Dave:I mean, it is quite cartoony. Yeah. But I mean, as as an art piece just to look at, it looks fine. Would I want this style in tales of the Old West anywhere? No.
Dave:Absolutely not. No. But yeah. I mean
Matthew:Until we do the giant clockwork spiders.
Dave:One day. And a long long time. Well, unless there's a huge unless there's a huge amount of cash in it for us, in which case. Yeah. Let's crack on.
Dave:Yes.
Matthew:Yeah. So it does in the in the quick start and just flicking through, there is a bit on the world. We talk about the last city, which is called Saltport. I'm having to not call it Ship City, but it's a bit like that. And there's an adventure, lonely fairer floor.
Matthew:So, yeah. We'd, you know, it give it a go. It's tater. Oh, there's hexes in it.
Matthew:There's a
Matthew:hex map and shit.
Dave:Well, it'd Yeah. Be
Matthew:Anyway, moving on to the next item. And I I suggest we run this next item into our next bit of content and
Dave:let's Okay. Well, let me let me do a quick little bit. The thing I was just going to talk about old west news. Okay. Just so people are aware.
Dave:So everybody knows that the last nearly the last year, the last ten months, I've had a a day job because the freelancing wasn't paying enough money. I had thought that I could manage both that job and the the amount of work I wanted to do on gaming stuff. My my work on the space truckers made it abundantly clear that that wasn't possible. I managed to get space truckers done. It took me many months longer, more than it should, because my for various reasons I won't go into, the day job that I was doing was was more
Matthew:Took more time than the
Dave:Yeah. It was more more full on and more stressful than I'd anticipated. So when I was getting home, I was basically frazzled and had no headspace to actually crack on and do anything else. So I took a made a decision, along with the support of my my lovely wife, that I am gonna quit that. And for at least a few months, I'm gonna devote myself entirely to effect publishing work, which means that the progress on things like the gold country should significantly improve, significantly increase.
Dave:We've also got other things we wanna do sort of looking ahead to next year, and I wanna be cracking on with those as well, particularly sort of the developing the the Rome idea. On that point, I need to talk to you about that after the show briefly. Cool. And and yeah, so we can no. I'm very lucky that that I've got a supportive wife and we can just about live without the the money I was earning.
Dave:So yeah, so that's my news. I will be I've got a couple of months notice, so I'll finish in August, but I will be ramping up to full time work on effect publishing products at the earliest opportunity. So you should expect to see a lot more progress.
Matthew:Yes. Cool. Have you did you manage to review the revised version of Lone Rider that I sent you?
Dave:I was read I was I was reading it briefly yesterday. I'm going to find a couple of hours this afternoon to have a play with it. Cool. Cool. Thank you.
Dave:My cards out. Yeah. So so that's that's getting yeah. So so yeah. Again, that could be an old West News as well.
Dave:We are very, very close to finishing the text on that. I don't know how long it'll take to lay out and and other bits and bobs once we've agreed that
Matthew:Yeah. It shouldn't take too long. We should get
Dave:but we are getting this. So apologies for those of you who were Kickstarter backers who have been waiting all this time to get your hands on it. Yeah. We have we have We made
Matthew:no promises about this one, so I'm not apologizing.
Dave:Yeah. Well, know, I think it would have been nice to have got it out sooner, but, you know, you had a full time day job, I had a full time day job, and we're still making progress. So but we are getting there. So thank you for your patience. You will have it.
Dave:I'm not gonna make any commitment to how many weeks.
Matthew:Don't promise anything.
Dave:No. No. It's on
Matthew:the way. It's on the way.
Dave:It's getting there. It is definitely getting there. We have not forgotten it, and we are working on it. Yeah.
Matthew:Cool. Cool. So then the final item in World of Gaming, which is really our next big item, is you can pre order the latest Alien cinematic adventure, which is called Operation Leading Edge. Get it? See what they did there?
Matthew:I I everybody's old enough to really
Dave:get better. I did very much wonder whether actually, you know, John called it that, and then and then somebody, do you realize Leading Edge was the company before that, you know
Matthew:Listen We did it on purpose.
Dave:Listen. Well, exactly. No. I'm sure they did do it on purpose. Well, you know, we've obviously got our interview with John coming up, and you'll hear you'll hear his side of the story.
Dave:But it did cross my mind. I thought it'd be quite funny that they did that, and there's something bloody hell. That's okay. Let's pretend it was intended that way all along. But yeah.
Dave:So, I mean, do we wanna just jump straight into the interview?
Matthew:Let's just go straight into the interview. Hello, and welcome back to the Hammam, Jonathan Hicks. Corporal Hicks,
Jonathan:as That's I like to call more like it. How
Dave:are you,
Jonathan:John? Yeah. I'm good. How are you, fellas?
Matthew:I'm very well. Dave, are you very well?
Dave:I'm I'm okay. I'm I'm okay. Yeah. Just back from work. A bit of a rush.
Dave:Slightly late starting because of me. So, I'm sorry. But I'm hot and sweaty which is perfect for being in a haman. So,
Matthew:Exactly. It's the realism that we have on this game. There we go. So, Jonathan, exciting news.
Dave:I won't mention whether I'm naked or not.
Jonathan:No, I wouldn't.
Matthew:Luckily, the cameras are turned off at Dave's house, so you can only imagine it.
Jonathan:They are. I'm trying not to imagine.
Matthew:Imagine my hair.
Dave:Yeah. Don't imagine. Don't don't do the don't go there. You only have to poke out your mind's eye afterwards.
Matthew:So Jonathan, last time we saw you was at UK Games Expo.
Jonathan:That's right.
Matthew:And you were looking for some Fidenza patches, weren't you?
Jonathan:Yes. And you very graciously managed to sort me out. So now I have I'm getting hold of a Floyd shirt, similar to the one that Ash wore in the film, and I'm gonna have those put on shoulders. I can only have my name tag put on it, like my like my Nostromo overalls. So, technically, I've served on two ships.
Jonathan:So but, yeah, thanks for that. And they're really cool patches as
Dave:well. Cool.
Matthew:And it's like the one I asked for. So you're an Android. Is this what you're telling us?
Jonathan:Yes. That's absolutely right. I prefer the term artificial human myself. But, but, yes, I'm I'm going down. That way then, talk make a template
Dave:I've got
Jonathan:use. Sorry?
Dave:It's synthetic person, surely. Isn't it synthetic person rather than artificial human?
Jonathan:Artificial I thought
Dave:Come on. Get your get your alien stuff right, don't you? Come on.
Jonathan:I'm pretty sure he he says artificial human. Artificial person. Oh, no. I'm gonna have to look it up now.
Dave:Okay. Well Oh, no. I've just lost my English streak. I'm gonna check. Well,
Matthew:I'm I'm very happy with this.
Dave:I don't
Matthew:know how the market humans or or synthetic people or whatever. I call them skin jobs.
Jonathan:Oh, no, mate. You're getting you're getting your genres mixed up.
Matthew:No. No. No. It's all the same continuity. Well,
Jonathan:I've always said that my trilogy in my head is Blade Runner, Outland Alien. Yeah.
Matthew:Anyway, anyway, the reason you are on the show is not to riff off Blade Runner Outland and Alien, but to talk about your kind of surprising because you didn't tell us this at UK Games Expo.
Dave:Mhmm. You will Actually, he he did. You know? He told me. Oh.
Jonathan:Yeah. I told Dave. I didn't tell you,
Dave:Matt. Yeah.
Jonathan:You know,
Dave:Us us alien writers, you know, gotta stick together.
Matthew:Publishing stand. Dave, you've got to pass these things on.
Jonathan:I thought it'd be. Sorry, mate. It's for the podcast.
Matthew:And it was. Yeah. So then they announced not long ago pre orders. And amazingly, the PDF is out already for those that pre order.
Jonathan:The beta.
Matthew:So people are getting hold of that. And amazingly, you've already had feedback about how you've incorrectly assumed various things for Alien. So tell us, Jonathan.
Jonathan:Well, it's not so much incorrect. Yeah. It's not so much incorrect as in I was just having fun and being creative, and there was loads I think I had an idea in my head about what I wanted it to look like and and what people wanted to play. And I would have liked to have played a bit with the clone of marines sort of pre what we know and what they were and what they were using, how they were dressed. But to be honest with you, when I was writing about clone of marines, all I had in the head was the squad from aliens.
Jonathan:And people know that, and I enjoy that. So that's what wanted to write about. So there was a bit of a discrepancy as far as the dates concerned because of, you know, Kremlin class ships and certain vessels and equipment not being available. But from what I understand, they're most likely gonna move the year of the adventure up a little bit so it suits so it all fits. But, yeah, the license team was happy with it, and and I was happy with it.
Jonathan:But but, yeah, hopefully, we've managed to we have to probably have to do a little bit of retro explaining in any future supplements. But, yeah, it was it was nothing major. Twenty Just twenty years off. So
Matthew:this, of course, came out of people feeding back on the PDF.
Jonathan:Yeah. There's
Matthew:bit to know there are nerdier nerds out there than us.
Jonathan:Absolutely. And that's why it's out there to pick up on these little things. And, yeah, the feedback has been absolutely well, it's been invaluable. That's why I think that's why they put it out. So, yeah, it's it's been really good.
Matthew:Brilliant. But you've not actually seen the PDF yourself because you're not gonna pay for a game that you've just written.
Jonathan:Yeah. But I said I spent six months writing it. I don't wanna look at it again until I Yeah. Until until I physically get it in my hands. People keep saying to me, when are you gonna run it?
Jonathan:I'm like, I'm never gonna run it. I never run my own games. You know what I mean? The the play testing of that was all taken care of with Thomas. Thomas Thomas is the co writer, of course.
Jonathan:It's not just me doing it. But yeah.
Matthew:Oh, so he he so you haven't even played it. You've you've passed all that over to Thomas?
Jonathan:Yeah. I've I've I've wrote it. Yeah. And then he and then he he'll playtest it and make any adjustments and and And
Matthew:you know what? I suddenly remember, I think, Anna telling me that she had play tested this new adventure. Yeah. So I did know about it, but maybe I haven't connected you with it. Didn't know what the title was.
Dave:Yeah. So, Jonathan, interesting title. We have our suspicions, but explain what's tell us what the title is. You know? And people already know that, obviously.
Dave:But then, yeah, what was your thinking behind it?
Jonathan:Well, I mean, I just wanted to come up with a wholly original title, reference to something that nobody's ever heard of before. So I thought, well, what the hell, man? Brilliant. And then on pure coincidence. No.
Jonathan:I mean, obviously, it's a homage to Elite Reigns who did the original ball playing game and and the board game. I mean, I I I used to have the adventure game. It wasn't a perfect fit for aliens, but I did have a lot of fun with it. And I really enjoyed the board game as well. So yeah.
Jonathan:And considering what this adventure's about, about people going in sort of the point of the spear, people going in first, the leading edge of the attack, It made sense to call it that. So, yeah, I'm a I've I've got big love for bleeding edge games. So yeah.
Matthew:So you got fond memories of the board game and the adventure game or less so the adventure game?
Jonathan:The adventure game, the system was a cut down version of Phoenix Command, wasn't it? So Yeah. Which was a very, very complicated military simulator, basically. And that kind of complication doesn't really suit something that's a bit more fast action. Whereas the the zero engine is a little bit sort of make two or three dice rolls, and you don't move on.
Jonathan:So, of course, that, you know, is a bit more cinematic. I think back when we played it, we ended up playing it for a few games. We did have fun, but we ended up switching over to the d six system, which we've been using for Star Wars, of course. So but but, yeah, it was good. But the great thing about the old game and the board game is that, of course, we we were starved of aliens information.
Jonathan:The same way that Star Wars fans were before the Star Wars role playing game came out in '87. So when we get that book and all the details in there and what have you, then, oh, yeah. It was wonderful. As as an aliens fan, yeah, it was wonderful.
Matthew:Now I know, Jonathan, because I've seen it on your blue sky that you collect an awful lot of alien stuff.
Jonathan:You used film. Yeah.
Matthew:That Leading Edge Games version of the adventure game and the board game.
Jonathan:I haven't got the board game anymore. I actually sold that to a collector because it wasn't in very good condition anyway, but I've still got the book. I've still got the original adventure game. Yeah. Yeah.
Matthew:It's part
Jonathan:of my large rather large alien collection.
Matthew:Yeah. You're getting multiple copies of the novel you're hunting down now, the the Alan Dean Foster novelization of
Jonathan:the person. It's a bit it's crazy. I'm missing one well, two copies now. I've got the original 1979 New York print with Warner books with a hardback cover, really one. I've got all the first edition UK prints with and without center pages.
Jonathan:And I've just put a bid on the hardback UK release, which is bloody expensive. And I thought I was getting delivered a Warner Bucks New York paperback release, but, sadly, the seller let me down. So and then I've got multiple copies of alien of aliens as well. But, yeah, it's it's a bit I I don't know. I've just got this drive to to own everything.
Jonathan:I've been buying the old magazines from 1979, of Starburst and all those sort of sorry, Starlog and all those kind
Dave:Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Jonathan:So, yeah, just old memorabilia. And my my two holy grails are the big chap, the Kenna toy, of course, and and the board game, the original board game.
Matthew:So I'm thinking starburst was also out. Are you telling me you haven't got the alien issue of starburst?
Jonathan:I can have a look right now, actually. I've got them all here. I've got Starlog. Starlog. Yeah.
Jonathan:I've got the Starburst.
Matthew:Excellent. Very good. Just wanted to make sure.
Jonathan:Yeah. What else have we got? We've got loads of alien stuff, and I've got the original poster magazines as well from the time. I've got both of those, which are really, really cool. And
Dave:Wow.
Jonathan:Yeah. Yeah. I I don't know. I just, as a collector and it's nice as well going looking back on the old articles and seeing basically what people thought they were getting or what it was gonna be about and the old reviews and that sort of thing. Yeah.
Jonathan:It's just I just find it fascinating. And it's great to have in the collection as well.
Dave:I thought I was a fan of Alien until the until now. I I don't I don't deserve that honorific at all. Yeah.
Jonathan:Well Everybody's a fan in their own way. Yeah.
Matthew:Yeah. I remember that novelization was quite important.
Dave:Tell us that about.
Matthew:I don't know what it would have been. 10 or 11. Oh, it's weird. I'm I'm not even sure what house my parents I I feel it was in the house that I only lived in up until I was about 10. But 10 would have made me too young for the novelization to have come out.
Matthew:It was 79, wasn't it?
Jonathan:79. Yeah. Allan Dean Foster. Yeah. Yeah.
Jonathan:One of the one of the most
Matthew:prolific Oh, Ken in '77.
Jonathan:Yeah.
Matthew:But it was it was kind of, if you like, the first grown up book
Jonathan:Yeah. That I think
Matthew:I I read. And yeah. Kirk, there was no way obviously I was gonna see the film then.
Jonathan:Of course.
Matthew:No. So anyway, happy memories. Yeah, come back to the
Dave:You just didn't try hard enough, Matt.
Jonathan:Not at all. So Sorry, Dave. We got a question, Dave.
Dave:I remember Yeah. So so just to follow yeah. I do have a question, John. But a quest just a reference there. I remember the first time I saw Alien was on my little black and white portable TV I had in my bedroom.
Dave:I'm not sure how old I was. Obviously, when it was first broadcast on telly, and I had a a long earpiece that I could plug in the front and have in my ear. It's like about six foot long cable.
Jonathan:Yeah.
Dave:And I remember watching it all in black and white and still, like, you know, the chest bursting scene was still like, oh, wow. I mean, blimey. And this is on a tiny little black and white screen.
Matthew:Mate, I'm Was it one of those?
Dave:Yeah. That was very cool.
Jonathan:I did exactly the same thing, and I was it was the same day as the World Cup. 07/11/1982, and it was the FIFA World Cup final that day as well. And they were showing it at 09:30 on ITV. And I was told I couldn't watch it. I was 12 years old.
Jonathan:And
Dave:Yeah. Me too. Yeah.
Jonathan:I mean, I couldn't I couldn't not watch it. And I did the same as you. I snuck up an old plastic black and white television upstairs to watch it. Of course, it scared the crap out of me. But the thing with Alien as well, watch it in black and white, and I've done that since.
Jonathan:Because it's so filled with deep shadows, watching it in black and white almost makes it worse.
Dave:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I I would have been in so much trouble if my dad had caught me. Yeah.
Dave:But that was great. No. So the question I had, John, so what can you tell us about Leading Edge? What can you say to entice people to wanna run out and get it if they haven't got it already?
Jonathan:Okay. So it's basically a war film. So you look at Alien being well, the first one, I've got back to protocol. So going back to this kind of alien alien free route, a lot of sneaking around. Aliens is yeah.
Jonathan:It's a little bit more like aliens. So, you know, you've got these colonial marines, but you're also fighting another enemy as well, which is the UPP. So it is actually a war film. Mhmm. Then imagine, I don't know, storm in the beaches at Normandy or any kind of World War two action film that you that you've ever watched.
Jonathan:Just basically just you you fought in what you say to be the enemy or the bad guys. And then, sadly, they've thrown some aliens into the mix as well. So so, yes, the whole adventure is basically a war film.
Dave:Cool. Can you tell us anything about the setting or where it is or anything like that? Or is that yeah. Just go out and buy the game if you want to know that kind of information.
Jonathan:It is set on Jeremiah again on the planet from the on the moon from the original from Rapture Protocol.
Dave:Right. Okay. Yep.
Jonathan:And that's pretty much to be honest with you, there's a few twists and turns actually throughout the game. There's a few sort of revelations, which which you'll find out which occurred in Rapture Protocol. So, yeah, it is difficult to sort of talk about it.
Dave:Without doing any spoilers. No? Fair enough.
Jonathan:Sadly. Yeah. But the trouble is that that's the nature, isn't it? When you write you can't really talk about a scenario like this because you'll be gonna giving too much away. No.
Jonathan:Tell you what. Ask me again in fifteen years when everyone's played it.
Matthew:Fifteen years.
Dave:A a bit quicker than that, I think.
Matthew:You did tell me while we were waiting for Dave to turn up, though, that there's an interesting thing quite apart from the error over the timing and that's being pointed out by the fans. There is a key thing in that this is not a sequel to Rapture Predator, is it?
Jonathan:It's a prequel. This will
Matthew:answer a
Jonathan:few questions that were raised in Rapture Protocol or at least, you know, not so much answer questions, but maybe a couple of extra revelations as to why things they are are the way they are. But but, yeah, it's a prequel.
Dave:That's interesting. So so was there an acting on your part, John, or Thomas' to say, let's go back and do a prequel, or was this just something that came out of your sort of deliberations when you were thinking about writing it in the first place?
Jonathan:No. I think this is all on this is this is all on Thomas. It's all Thomas' fault. No. This is this is pretty much all.
Jonathan:Yeah. He basically just got in touch, explains because bay but, basically, the way that it works is they'll get in touch and explain the the layout, acts one, two, and three, about what they want to happen. And then as they know, literally the bare bones of the situation, and then I come in, then I'll just fill in all the blanks with characters and incidents and events and all that sort of stuff. Yeah. So, yeah, he he had an idea about what he wanted, he and thought it'd be interested to he thought it'd be interested to do it this way.
Jonathan:So as a storytelling device. So but yeah. But yeah. Yeah.
Dave:Think
Jonathan:it's it's it's a good idea. So
Matthew:let me get this clear then. Was that the same with rapture protocol as well? I'd was kind of under the impression that you'd sent us along on spec to Thomas.
Jonathan:No. No.
Matthew:No. He
Jonathan:No. They got he he got he got in touch with me and said, are you interested in writing it? We had a bit had a very, very brief chat with this. She had a chat about it. And then he sent me over the the breakdown about what he wanted to happen, about returning it to Alien's roots of sneaking about.
Jonathan:I think he realized how much I was in love with Alien as the, you know, the first film is my favorite. Mhmm. So and that's and that's why he he came to me. So when we originally wrote Rapture Protocol, there was no talking about a e Evolved edition at the time. Right.
Jonathan:So I think Yeah. That came that came along later. I don't know if they already have plans for it, but that came so when I wrote
Matthew:I remember when we interviewed you, you said it was kinda new to you as well.
Jonathan:Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I never saw that one at all. Yeah.
Jonathan:So so but when I wrote the second one, yeah, he he was written with the evolved edition in mind. I mean, to be fair, it's it's very close anyway to the first edition. Yeah. So and I was more interested
Dave:in characters in
Jonathan:the story. So
Matthew:So and this so he came to you so he first of all, he came to you and said, will you write Rapture Prodigal for us? Mhmm. Then how long ago did he come to you and say, now we've got an idea for a prequel? Yeah. When do you think that was?
Jonathan:Oh, blimey. It was definitely last year, early last year, and it was a long, involved, and delicate process of negotiation.
Matthew:Dave's done this before.
Jonathan:Yeah. Well, basically, he sent me an email and said, hey. Do wanna write the c call? And I went, yeah. Alright then.
Jonathan:That was it. So, yeah, so as soon as I agreed Yep. That's
Dave:that's kinda sums it up.
Jonathan:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then he said again, he said he said the breakdown. I mean, Thomas I mean, he's basically holding on to the license at the end of the day.
Jonathan:So I was enjoying coming up with new ideas and messing them out with things and say, hey. Would this work? But he's I mean, at the end of the he's the guy that puts it all into place and and and makes it all work. I think the only thing that really I got excited about with the second one with lead operation leading edge was that there was a a big UPP starship on on the planet's surface, and I got to design it visually. Internally, I did a way to lay out.
Jonathan:And externally, he asked me to do a quick sketch. So I did a top I'm a bit I'm a bit of an artist myself. So I did a top down and side shot of it. And just basically, okay, something like this, you know, something a bit chunky and industrial, something a bit like that. And then when I saw the picture
Dave:It's a Brooklyn style.
Jonathan:Yeah. It was kind of almost exactly as I've as I've drawn it, and I was like, oh my god. So not only have I created characters and what have you, I'm also now a starship designer for the. So that was really exciting. Nice.
Jonathan:But but, yeah, it was I actually had more fun on this one than because I knew what to expect. So I knew how to what to write, how to write, how to lay it out, and what was expected of me. Yeah. So so it's a bit more I I I had had a hell of a lot of fun on this one. Latch protocol was a dream come true, but lead engage was a lot of fun.
Matthew:Cool. So It's definitely
Dave:a learning curve in in working out working out how how Free League like you to do things.
Matthew:Yeah.
Dave:And, once you crack it, it it it's great, but there is quite a lot of, I find anyway, you know, kind of, like, stress about, am I getting this in the right format? And then Thomas comes back and says, no. It's not like that. It's like this.
Jonathan:Yeah. And kind of
Dave:and he's not really impatient, but quite impatient kind of way.
Jonathan:Yeah. I mean I mean, the the way the way that you work, so you come back with lots of notes, lots comments in the documents, and all that sort of stuff. But the way that I see it, I yeah. I'm I'm of course, I'm gonna have a million and one ideas. There was ideas that I had for Raptor Protocol, which never materialized or dropped to the wayside and stuff that he added as well.
Jonathan:But at the end of the day, you know, it's he he's the one with the keys to the playground. So
Matthew:and he's letting
Jonathan:me play in it for a little while, so I'm not gonna I'm I'm gonna do what I can
Dave:to to
Jonathan:suit their to suit their format. So
Matthew:So Yeah. Of course. If Rapture Predator was a bit of a haunted house adventure, and this is a bit of a war movie
Jonathan:Yeah.
Matthew:Can we assume that he's gonna contact you at some point in the future and say, now we want you to do one set on a prison planet?
Jonathan:Mate, nothing's been talked about. I don't even know if I'm writing the third one. To be honest with you, I didn't even know I was writing the second one, so nothing's been talked about. A 100%, also would. I'm not sure about the prison planet.
Jonathan:I think people might be starting to get a bit suspicious. I might set it on a giant wooden planet and see what people think about that. But but, yeah, it's it's it's been a hell of an experience. And, yeah, I mean, I'd love to I'd love to do the third one and complete the trilogy. But but, no, nothing's nothing's been
Dave:Was it always When it when they came to speak to you about wrapped approach goal, was it always, like, positive to you as this is part one of a trilogy?
Jonathan:No. It wasn't. I only found out that it's gonna be part of a trilogy when they called it part one of the Jeremiah saga. I was like, part one? Really?
Jonathan:Yeah. How many how many parts is it gonna be? I mean, traditionally, three, but but, no, I I I I didn't know that at all. And it's a nice surprise to me as well, to be honest with you. Yeah.
Jonathan:I know that when I because when I read Rapture Protocol, that stuff at the end with the dog catchers, I had nothing to do with that. So it was actually quite a surprise for me to read it and thinking, oh my god. This this is really cool. So I'm hoping for a similar surprise when I read Operation Leading Edge.
Dave:Right. Nice.
Matthew:So I'm just I go back to a previous question, actually it also moves us on a little bit, probably from giving you the opportunity to relax about revealing any spoilers for Operation Eating Edge. When they when when Thomas approached you last time, do you think it was the work you'd done on those dark spaces and pressure that had brought him to your attention brought you to his attention?
Jonathan:I hope so. I remember when Alien first came out because I'd literally just written those dark places. And I was thinking, no. There's not a game like this. There's no this this is gonna be my Alien.
Jonathan:This is gonna be the game that I play because there's no Alien role playing game. Yeah. And I'd agreed with Osprey Games to get it all released, etcetera, etcetera. And then suddenly, they announced the alien role playing game. I was like, oh, really?
Jonathan:Come on. I've just spent a year and a half rough.
Dave:And the timing was
Jonathan:It sucked.
Dave:Yeah. The timing was about as bad as it could have been.
Jonathan:Yeah. Well, I mean, those dark places ended up doing really, really well. So which I was really, really happy about. And I actually pitched an eventual idea to Thomas in Free League, basically, just based on an offshoot of what happened on the Sebastopol in Alien Isolation. But nothing came with that because, obviously, they've they've got limitations to the license, and they said, well, thanks.
Jonathan:Basically, you never look it over. We'll be in touch. And then two and I thought nothing of it because that's what happens. You pitch, you get refused, or it falls into limbo. And then and then, yeah, then two years later, he just sent me an email out of blue.
Jonathan:I was sat in a small restaurant in in town, and my wife has a photo of me. I read the email and then put my phone down and put my head in my hand, and she was just taking random photos. She took a photo of me sat there the very moment I just read the email from Thomas to write that one. But yeah. Yeah.
Jonathan:I and and I look I look like I'm shitting myself, to be plainly obvious with you. But but but no. But I hope so. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I got quite a bit of attention off off the back of those dark places and then pressure.
Jonathan:So so, yeah, I'd like to think that was the case. Mhmm.
Matthew:So we're see anything more in the pressure universe?
Jonathan:A 100% you are. At the moment, it's having the bandwidth to do it. I've because, of course, things kinda took off with other with other projects, and I'll be working on some other stuff as well. Some stuff that I can't talk about right now, unfortunately. Go on.
Matthew:We won't tell anybody. It's just you, me, and Dave.
Jonathan:Mate, I don't don't don't don't tell anyone else. This is between me and you. But but, yeah, sadly, it's I do I desperately do wanna do some more stuff. Like, I released the book, and I I sort of self published my own adventures for it. And I've done four to yet.
Jonathan:And I've got a big campaign sorted out called Roadrunner, which is gonna be using the pressure pressure game. Well, you can use both rule sets with it, but I just haven't had the time because this isn't my full time job. I actually have a day job. So everything I'm doing with all this, I'm doing in my in my spare time. I've got a full time job and a family.
Jonathan:So Mhmm. But, yeah, I I need to I need to squeeze that in at some point.
Dave:Yes. It's not very easy, is it? I find so I've so I as you know, I I kind of freelanced for a couple of years, then I went and got a got a a real job because I wasn't earning quite enough money. So I thought I could do a full time job and do some freelancing stuff at the same time. Say, I mean, I've been lucky enough.
Dave:I've been working on the space trucker campaign this last few months.
Jonathan:Yeah. Yeah.
Dave:But I thought, I I thought I could do both, but it's clear from that experience that I can't. Yeah. So I'm lucky enough to be able to give the the gaming work another go full time for a little while. Mhmm. So I'm leaving my day job, and I'm gonna have a real blast at that and effect publishing stuff Yeah.
Dave:And really try and put some energy behind it.
Jonathan:Oh, that's fantastic too.
Dave:Because, like, yeah, it's so difficult to it's so difficult to do it all, isn't it? Whether a real job, a family, everything else you want to do, it just can kinda all consume, you know, your your time.
Jonathan:Yeah. Absolutely. So I, you
Dave:know, I I admire how much you're doing whilst keeping everything else going because I know how hard it is.
Jonathan:But the thing is, a lot of the that I'm looking at are very sort of far away in the future projects, so we're sort of setting the groundwork of it. There's a couple of licenses which I've gone for, which I'm really happy with. So we're sort of laying the groundwork to get it done. But these projects, I'm looking, like, sort of, like, two years ahead, two two, maybe even three years ahead. I'm still not doing enough to do it full time, but, yeah, that that is the dream.
Dave:Yeah. Yeah. It's, yeah, it's a it's a very difficult dream to realize as I've found. Yeah. But we'll keep trying.
Dave:But yeah. So, yeah, so those are the projects, Jonathan. Tell us all about them.
Jonathan:Well, like I said, I can't. But there is there is one project which is working. There was an old role playing game.
Dave:I had I had to try again, didn't I?
Jonathan:I had
Dave:to try again.
Jonathan:There's an old role playing game from the nineteen eighties called Dragon Warriors. Was released in
Matthew:Oh, yeah. Corgi books. Came in paperback format initially.
Jonathan:Was re released first with Magnum Opus, now through Serpent King games. And it's a cool I I love the setting. I think the setting is wonderful. It's one of the best one of my favorite fantasy settings. So I'm working on sort of doing some stuff for that and bringing that sort of back to the fore again, getting some more rotation on that.
Jonathan:But other than that, no. Sadness. Yeah. I'm I'm NDA ed up to the eyeballs, so I can't talk about them.
Dave:No. That's fair enough. Yeah. We if if we were nice people, we wouldn't keep asking you, but, you know
Matthew:But we're not nice. We're not nice people. Yeah. I I'm sure I had another question. In fact, were talking a little bit about something else while we were waiting for Dave to turn up, and I said, I'll ask you about that in the when we start recording.
Matthew:And can I remember what it is?
Jonathan:I can't remember.
Matthew:Gone out of my head entirely.
Jonathan:I thought we covered it. Wasn't that about the Leading Edge Leading Edge title?
Matthew:Yeah. No. It may May maybe we we have covered it. Well, so you got any idea from Thomas how sales are going? Is there gonna be any more work in relation to this sort of beta release coming out before the before it
Jonathan:I'm goes to not involved. So no. I've done my bit. So and I think they put this PDF out not to make any major changes, but to sort of tweak it a little bit to make, you know, the with the feedback that they get. Yeah.
Jonathan:I can't see there being any major rewrites or any major additions. I was doing that beginning of this year with some extra ideas and characters and that sort of stuff, but I can't see anything major. I think it's pretty much ready to go from what I understand. They're just gonna do some tweaks off the back of the beta, tidy things up a little bit, and then, yeah, it'll be all be all ready to go.
Matthew:Brilliant. And so this is the first. Oh, and it's not the first cannon UPP fight, is it? Actually, we've we've had some of that in
Jonathan:Yeah. And I think that I've had some before, but, yeah, there there there is a big there there's there's there's a bigger bigger fight in this. Oh, no. I'm I'm not gonna I'm not gonna say anymore.
Dave:K. Yeah. So there's there's definitely a little bit of UPP involved in destroyer of worlds.
Matthew:That's the one I thinking. Yeah.
Dave:Angle in in building better worlds as well. Mhmm. One of the antagonists for the UPP. Yeah. But then they might become friend okay.
Dave:Effektively hasn't played that Spoilers.
Jonathan:Spoilers away. Love that know. Nice one, Dave. And
Dave:and yeah. I know. And and who knows? There might be a UPP element in in the space trucker campaign, but there might not. So you
Jonathan:never know. That'd be cool.
Dave:They are everyone everyone's favorite everyone's favorite enemy. Yeah. The UPP.
Matthew:Brilliant. Well, it's been a real pleasure to talk to you again, Jonathan.
Jonathan:No. Thanks for having me back on.
Dave:As always, John. Yeah. So that was great. It's it's always a pleasure to to chat with John. He's a really good guy, and I've and I've loved his work in the past.
Dave:Like like you say, Those Dark Places, you know, we he ran that for us. That was a really, really good fun fun game. And he's clearly clearly a completely bonkers nerd about Alien. I hadn't realised quite how bonkers nerd he is. And that's a compliment everyone, just in case you're not you're not sure.
Dave:So that was real I'm delighted for him that he's got the opportunity to do to do these cinematics, even though when I first heard he'd got the the job to do Rapture Protocol, was a bit envious because I wanted to do it. But I can't complain because I get to do quite a lot of stuff anyway.
Matthew:Yeah. You're you've you've just said how busy you were doing doing
Dave:I know.
Matthew:I the the space trackers thing.
Dave:Yeah. Yeah. But I wouldn't I wouldn't ever turn it down. That's for sure. No.
Dave:Just
Matthew:in case Thomas is listening, he's not
Jonathan:turning No.
Dave:Exactly. No. No. Yeah. I would always do a commission from Free League.
Dave:So But, yeah. Yeah. I Yeah. So it's great. It's good to see that coming out.
Dave:Love the idea, actually, that it's a prequel. Think that's a nice that's a nice touch. It'd be interesting to see how how it kind of sets up Rapture Protocol without giving any, I guess, spoilers for Rapture Protocol, or whether they are just otherwise, they're just very, very tenuously linked because they're in a similar kind of place on the same planet. It's interesting. The idea I love the idea.
Dave:Yeah.
Matthew:I've seen some people on social media saying, how come you can have three interlinked cinematics Yeah. If all the characters die or if there's a possibility that all the characters die. And I think one of the key things about the cinematics is that, if you like, the campaign element of those three symptomatics is there for you, the player, not necessarily for your character to work through. And I think actually doing a thing that says, okay, here's an adventure you've all had, and now we're going back in time, is is a great way to really drive that point home.
Jonathan:Yeah. So
Matthew:our group of players may experience the same setting in two different times.
Jonathan:Yes.
Matthew:By necessity, unless we've invented time travel, your characters are not gonna be the same characters.
Dave:Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
Dave:Well, it's a bit like
Matthew:the Time travel and resurrection, obviously.
Dave:Yeah. I
Matthew:mean
Dave:it
Matthew:will all be dead anyway.
Dave:Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It's you know, it's the same principle as the the trilogy of Chariot of the Gods, Destroyer of Worlds and Heart of Darkness. Obviously, the same characters are not going to play in those three scenarios, but they are all kind of tenuously linked along that story line.
Matthew:Yes. So you, the players, if
Dave:you Exactly. Three Yeah. Yeah.
Matthew:Get a bigger picture. Like us, the audience, when we're at the cinema watching different characters, say, in Alien.
Dave:Aliens and Alien three. Yeah. Exactly.
Matthew:Well, I was thinking about the latest one because, obviously, bloody Ripley is all through three of them. Although not necessarily the same Ripley in all of them.
Dave:No. No. No. No. But the print yeah.
Dave:I mean but, again, in in a yeah. I mean, the okay. Yeah. You could argue then Alien, Romulus, and Covenant, say.
Matthew:Yeah. Or Provenant. Yeah. That then Romulus was the one I was trying to think of. Yeah.
Matthew:You know, we we we get a bigger picture because none of the characters have seen Alien and don't know about the alien in space that they find in spoilers. Spoilers, everybody.
Dave:If you haven't seen Alien already, then, you know, you're you're forty years late. Yeah.
Matthew:And the and the asteroid and stuff like that, you know. We we get the benefit of that as viewers. The characters don't have any of that knowledge. That's Yeah.
Dave:Right. I rewatched Romulus the other day. Mhmm. And it's not as good as I thought it was first time around on the first watch. It's fine.
Dave:I quite like Rain as a character. If Rain comes back in another Alien movie, I won't be disappointed. But again, I just felt a bit like going through the motions of, okay, here's another situation with a couple of aliens we've got to deal with, and I know they're okay, you know. And here's another situation with some aliens. So it was it was good, but I think, you know, that the excitement of seeing a new Alien movie for the first time in a long time carried me when I first
Matthew:watched it. A new Alien movie that wasn't shit.
Dave:Yes. Absolutely.
Matthew:It's a key thing. Yeah. Like, none of those prequels, they none they they work on zero level for me.
Dave:Yeah. I mean, it it's funny. I mean, I I quite enjoy I mean, I quite enjoy re watching Covenant, even though it's mostly shit. But just the just the concept of the colony ship and kind of all the visuals of that, I really love all that. That's really cool.
Dave:But, yeah, the actual story is a load of old poo. But
Matthew:And I you know, what I loved about Romulus is the setup of that world and
Dave:Yes. The fact
Matthew:that there is no union band and all of that. What I hated about it, and it pissed me off at the time, even though I thought generally it was quite a good movie, that that that final act, that final scene where
Dave:Yes. Agreed.
Matthew:Clever bloke has the idea, oh, wouldn't be aliens wouldn't aliens be even more scary if they were more human?
Dave:No. They just look weird and stupid. And it's a point it's a pointless another scene as
Matthew:And the the whole point of the alien is it's already weird and scary because it's human. I mean
Dave:because it's not Partly. Human. Yeah.
Matthew:But but also because it no. But it is it's a it is already a hybrid. You know? It it's it's taken human DNA. It's got human
Dave:bits Yeah. In True.
Matthew:You know. It's already a hybrid just to the way that they reproduce.
Dave:Yeah. I mean, there is there is definitely a bit in that. I think the longer that the kind of the IP goes on and the more interesting or the more varied things that come out, the more people feel you've got to come up with a reasoning and an explanation for how all these things happen. Yeah. Whereas, one of the joys of Alien and Aliens was you didn't really know how all these things happened.
Dave:You know, okay, you found out in Aliens that you've got the queen that lays the eggs, but that seems like a reasonable thing. But all the black goo and it modifies your DNA and turns you into all this kind of stuff. It's fine. It explains stuff, but it it just becomes the the longer you stretch it, the thinner the kind of
Matthew:credibility is. It's always the way.
Dave:It it is true.
Matthew:That's why we're strictly limiting this podcast to 286 episodes.
Dave:We've already done more than that. You know?
Matthew:I know we have. We're strictly limiting it to this this particular episode to no. I've I've already got half an hour's content we've to put in here. Okay. This gag just isn't gonna work.
Dave:Shall we move on
Matthew:to what we're doing next episode?
Dave:Yeah. But, dear, yeah, just a final thank you to John for coming on the show. And, yeah, what are we doing next time?
Matthew:Have you
Dave:got anything in mind?
Matthew:I have got something in mind, Dave. I'm gonna write an article. Somebody on the Discord said to me, oh, it's all very well you having this free thing, but, you know, free license to do content for.
Dave:In the Old West. Yeah.
Matthew:Made in the Old West. But how do I actually do that? And so, I'm gonna do an article that is a I wanna call it an there used to be that that set of books, such and such a thing for idiots. But you're not idiots.
Jonathan:Oh, well Gentleman and they.
Matthew:You're not idiots. What is it?
Dave:Yeah. Such as Dummies, isn't it? Like, Divorce for Dummies and Astrophysics for Dummies or whatever. Yeah.
Matthew:You you that title rolls off your lips like it's one that you've used quite regularly.
Dave:No. Wasn't. It wasn't. I I had no. No.
Dave:No. Not in the slightest. Back in back in the day, I had an expensive solicitor. Anyway, carry
Matthew:So, yeah, I'm gonna do let let us say a beginner's guide. Things you have to think about Yes. To get this done. And and
Dave:obviously, just between us, while while while we're just talking, just you and me and nobody else listening Yeah. You're obviously gonna put in, obviously, lots of little little booby traps and stuff because we don't want loads of competitors now, do we? I mean, come on. Don't want lots of these people doing good stuff.
Matthew:We we what I want to do is show how easy it is with little bit of gumption.
Dave:You've missed my point entirely.
Matthew:No. No. No. No. I know your point exactly.
Matthew:It's a thing that we should have done when we were 15, mate, but we didn't.
Dave:We weren't until
Matthew:now to do it. And actually, it's a lot easier now than it used to be.
Dave:So Yes. Yeah. That is
Matthew:true. Take advantage of that and show other people how to take advantage of it. A rising tide, Dave.
Dave:Again, you've totally missed my joke
Matthew:as ships.
Dave:Yeah. Yeah. Unless those ships have got holes in them and are waiting for repair, and then they see.
Matthew:Yeah. Yeah. Well, don't worry. We'll we'll send the saboteurs in with the with the screw later on if anybody gets too big for their boots.
Dave:Yeah. Cool. Good idea. I like I like that idea. Lovely.
Dave:Well, on that note then, I I think it's have a good couple of weeks, everybody, and it's goodbye from me.
Matthew:And it's goodbye from him.
Jonathan:May the icons bless your adventures.
Dave:You have been listening to the effect podcast presented by Fiction Suit and the RPG gods. Music stars on a black sea, used