Matthew: 00:39

Hello, and welcome to episode 282 of Effekt Out of the Woods. I'm Matthew, and Dave sends his apologies. Really, really busy at work and looking after his dad for a while too for reasons. So you've just got me. Well, you haven't just got me, as I will explain as I go through the contents of this program.

Matthew: 01:12

First of all, to say that there are no new patrons to thank, so we won't be doing that. We'll just be thanking all our old patrons. Well, I'll be thanking Dave. Dave, Dave not here to thank you. So you know what he thinks of you.

Matthew: 01:26

And there's one bit of news in the world of gaming and only one bit of news that would also be the content of our interview. So let's crack on. As I said, no new patrons, but I do want to thank all our existing patrons for your continued support. You without you, this podcast wouldn't happen. And also without you, I might not have had any questions to ask of our guest but but thankfully you all stepped up to the mark and gave me lots of really interesting questions to ask in the upcoming interview.

Matthew: 02:05

On to the world of gaming. Cranky. We're racing through this. This is amazing. So much easier when Dave isn't here.

Matthew: 02:13

World of gaming, there's just one bit of news, and that is Free League have announced a tenth anniversary edition of Simba Room. So in a change to our published programming, what we're going to do in this episode is drop the Coriolis content we were thinking about and return to another one of, Dave's favorite games. I I played a mute Ogo in this game. It was hilarious because we're doing it on a podcast, and having a mute character on a podcast is a world of fun, let me tell you. You can listen to that podcast by the way in our Effekt AP channel.

Matthew: 02:57

You'll find it there. But yes so this was exciting news we dropped everything and we invite I invited, Matthias Jonsson to come and talk about this new edition and the new part of the world it opens up as well. So let's track on with that interview. And with us once more in the hammam is Matthias Jonsson. Welcome, Matthias.

Mattias: 03:24

Thank you very much, and thanks for having me.

Matthew: 03:28

We're a little bit ahead of the game, aren't we? Because we only had this slot. We've moved stuff aside to get you in here because we realized it's the only time before the Kickstarter goes live that we'll

Mattias: 03:44

be Yeah. We were trying to to set something up on Thursday. Today, it's Tuesday, but it turns out it's

Matthew: 03:55

is Night for us in English.

Mattias: 03:57

Night. Correct. So my my family thought that I should tag along for, you know, dinners and go and watch the bonfires and whatnot.

Matthew: 04:09

That that's great. Okay. So tell me, what does what is a Swedish wild purchase like like, first of all? No. Sorry for our Swedish listeners.

Matthew: 04:16

Yeah. They're all this by the back of their hand. But American listeners and English and.

Mattias: 04:21

No. But it it it is it was sort of, at least for me, a very big thing when I grew up. Because it was the celebration of of spring arriving. Mhmm. Since then, yeah, you know, with the global warming and stuff, we I haven't seen snow appear in for six weeks, maybe, five,

Matthew: 04:47

six

Mattias: 04:47

weeks, and that is

Matthew: 04:48

And you're yeah.

Mattias: 04:48

You're Normally normally are you? Yeah. Normally, it would be snow outside come Thursday, the and the May 1. So but what we do, we barbecue often if the weather allows, and Mhmm. Nowadays, it does.

Matthew: 05:07

It will allow?

Mattias: 05:08

And then, yeah, and then we gather in enormous crowds around massive bonfires that is sort of, you know, everything you wanna see gone that is flammable. So, and it can be like 500, 1,500, 3,000 people gathering around that bonfire, and they're singing and often there are some market, some fair activity and so on.

Matthew: 05:42

Is there a special drink for Well Pugues Night?

Mattias: 05:46

Alcohol.

Matthew: 05:49

Any of those alcohol.

Mattias: 05:51

Yeah. That's that's very special for Al Purgis Night. Never ever in in any other time of year. So that's cool.

Matthew: 06:02

Okay.

Mattias: 06:03

No. An honest answer would be kerosene because you need it to light the bonfire. Yeah. You shouldn't drink it, I know, but it's kind of tasty when you get used it.

Matthew: 06:16

Yeah. Well, you know, I don't know whether you we used to have a a sweet, a boiled sweet in in England. We I I imagine we still do, but I don't eat them anymore. Called pear drops. And Ah.

Matthew: 06:29

To me, they always tasted of sweet kerosene. Oh, man.

Mattias: 06:36

Sounds horrible.

Matthew: 06:38

So, yeah. But I wouldn't drink it. You're right. Okay. We are here though to talk about Simba Room because you have exciting news.

Matthew: 06:47

Which I'm sure everybody has heard. But just say it. For for the benefit of those who may not have been looking at the Internet.

Mattias: 06:55

Yeah. It's fine finally time, and it's it's I have to pinch myself, but it's finally time to do something about the the the mass of confusion in the current game line, with stuff spread all over the place from here to there. So that is one thing that we aim to do with this Kickstarter project that is launching in three weeks, exactly three weeks today. And the other big thing is that we are launching or welcoming you to tag along to a brand new campaign setting about the scope of the Davaoqar region.

Matthew: 07:47

And I think we last time we interviewed you, you kind of gave us some hints about what that new setting might be. Yeah. I think you told us to look at the intelligence reports. Right. And so that that may in fact, let's start.

Matthew: 08:05

So Mhmm. Obviously, you'll be aware that I only play Simbroom. I've never run it. And the the only book I've got, but it's a it's one of my favorite books, is the art book that you did Oh, yeah. Which has got all of Martin Gripp's lovely well, it's got some of the best of Martin Gripp's lovely pictures from from early editions, early books.

Matthew: 08:24

So I'm not the expert on Symbroom. I have called out to our community, many of whom don't think we have enough Symbroom in our I'm

Mattias: 08:34

sure you'll do perfectly fine. I know that Dave is the one among

Matthew: 08:41

He's the one that actually

Mattias: 08:43

played a lot more Symbroom.

Matthew: 08:44

Anyway,

Mattias: 08:47

I thank you so much for this opportunity and I must admit right off the bat that I'm a little bit I think we will have to let the questions lead this because Brilliant,

Matthew: 09:01

brilliant.

Mattias: 09:01

And some stuff I may not be able to answer today. I can speculate maybe, but we are very far come when it's in regards to exploring this new setting.

Matthew: 09:20

Right.

Mattias: 09:21

When you start creating a new setting, it's it's it's like wading through a swamp with high grass that you sort of try to get through, and mud in your shoes, and you're cold, and all the mosquitoes and everything. But it's been a while now since we came out actually up on dry land and started to actually see this setting before us.

Matthew: 09:51

See what it looks like. Okay, so let's start with that first question then. Will does the intelligence report for the city states still hold up? Or is that now reduced to hearsay and rumor?

Mattias: 10:07

Yeah. I mean, it was hearsay and rumor back then, I But would what's his face? The the Rallagay Melion of the Royal Secretarium, of course, he has to trust a lot to his actual field agents. But basically, everything that's written in that report is valid. Mhmm.

Mattias: 10:43

There are a few things that the embryons don't really get about the the city state as as a realm because it is maybe first and foremost, or was I should say, first and foremost a realm that was once upon a time divided up between eight siblings of Lady Lionel Wendelin, who came to this area about a millennia ago. So roughly about the time when Symbron was at its peak.

Matthew: 11:23

Okay. Will we be discovering This is a kind of follow-up question to that first one, and I don't know whether there was any hint of this in the intelligence report or not, but, this is from Andy, one of our, oldest patrons, and he's saying and a big Simba Rubin fan. He's he's run the campaign will we be discovering in this new location details of the rest of the Pantheon other than Prios?

Mattias: 11:59

Actually this realm or these city states, depending on how you look at it, was founded by believers in the old gods.

Matthew: 12:16

A titan of Prios is Olympians.

Mattias: 12:18

Yeah, the pantheon of the old gods, there's no Prios here. Actually, as the story goes, at least, the eight siblings who founded the city states were all fathered by priests in the dominant church of of the old gods. So, yeah, that's that's that. No priests.

Matthew: 12:45

So not priests' sibling gods, but priests'

Mattias: 12:51

Ancestors.

Matthew: 12:52

Ancestors, I guess. Okay. Cool. Cool. I've got it, so I'm just going to expand on that one.

Mattias: 12:59

I should say also, can I just elaborate a little bit? You should not expect this setting to be as steeped in religious conflicts and religious themes as the Davoca region, because many centuries ago the people of Vanillin Realm actually started, and that it has evolved over the years, started trusting alchemy, astromancy, we can return to those mechanics and more hands on kind of sciences.

Matthew: 13:48

So this is a rational society?

Mattias: 13:51

At least it was until the big bada boom.

Matthew: 13:56

Right.

Mattias: 13:57

That happened twenty seven months ago. I'm I'm assuming we will get to that at some point.

Matthew: 14:04

Okay. Okay. We I'll make a note to get into the big bad bada boom. I'm not sure I've got any questions about that here. Hold on.

Matthew: 14:12

Question 13.

Mattias: 14:13

It's sort of a big thing big deal about this setting. I'm guessing. And

Matthew: 14:24

then Andy, I've got a couple of questions of his that I'm gonna come back to a bit later on because I think I've written a different place. And actually yeah another one there but he does ask a very important question is will there be more ducks?

Mattias: 14:50

Yeah, think in Qarqasar, one of the city states, duck is considered a delicacy. But other than that, I don't know exactly what you mean by the question. Okay. You have to ask Matthias Lilian, my colleague. Or maybe time travel or or flap away to some other dimension.

Mattias: 15:21

I love ducks. That one

Matthew: 15:23

duck was a joke, remember? And he said, so is this No,

Mattias: 15:26

I love ducks in playing games. For me, it's just not very symbolic.

Matthew: 15:33

So let's talk a little bit more about another question. This is from Neil who, again, is one of our longest standing patrons and probably the biggest Symbroom fan in our in our gang. And he was asking, it certainly sounds like alchemy will be a big thing in the new setting. Can you tell us about that please?

Mattias: 15:58

Yes, a little bit. Alchemy because this setting is dominated by people that shuns corruption beyond everything else and has done so for centuries. So, and we can return to that later, but the mystical tradition that has developed in this area of the world is called astromancy. And it is sort of technically, instead of suffering corruption, they have found a way to prime magic by leaching energy from the cosmos. They are pretty holistic, philosophical, and in tune with the universe.

Mattias: 17:00

They engaged in stuff that has to do with the forces of nature, but also with divination and that sort of thing. In other words, not only the material world, but also the concept of time and how that really works and how to interpret time in different ways. So besides Astromancy, we have always had alchemy as one big field of study in the Wendelin realm. The thing is that something peculiar has happened over the last decade, maybe a little bit earlier than that. A discovery was made which has, long story short, evolved into a new kind of alchemical practice called radical alchemy.

Mattias: 18:02

It has many names depending on, you know, the school of thought. But basically we go with the title radical alchemy. And it lets you manipulate alchemical components and substances in a very direct manner. For instance, you can combine certain components in real time and throw them or consume them or feed them to someone or yeah, for instant effect. So it becomes a little bit like a mystical tradition, but you suffer normally, you suffer something called morphosis of corruption.

Mattias: 18:57

Say that again? Morphosis.

Matthew: 18:59

Morphosis Instead of corruption.

Mattias: 19:04

Yeah. Sort of instead of corruption. We can we can linger a bit with the concept of morphosis.

Matthew: 19:13

But Let's let's let's actually you talk about the society here shuns corruption. Yeah. And and I know when I was playing as my as Pop Boy, my silent ogre, he he would shun corruption as well. He wasn't having any of that. But some people like, you know, like to take that risk so they can do a brimstone cascade or whatever in Davaka.

Matthew: 19:42

But what you're saying here is society has decided this is not the way to do magic so they found these alchemical means instead.

Mattias: 19:52

Yeah. It's actually one of the old gods. They are not very nice guys and gals. They are punishers basically of unwanted behaviour and unwanted traits. So one of the gals domain is actually that of, we would call it corruption today.

Matthew: 20:19

Right.

Mattias: 20:20

So no, they've since long they haven't. But I think before we continue, because there's so much of this story and what we are talking about that ties into what happened twenty seven months ago. I think we should address that basically first and foremost.

Matthew: 20:41

Okay. Let's let's go back twenty seven months ago.

Mattias: 20:44

Yeah. When the

Matthew: 20:45

Well, my first question about that actually is, is it anything to do with the end of the campaign in

Mattias: 20:51

Davakar? Has it been

Matthew: 20:55

No. Figured to buy it? No? No. Something okay.

Matthew: 20:58

Like, this No.

Mattias: 21:00

Because Again, we don't know how that campaign ends. That's so extremely much up to the the the table. So we can take I mean there are lore wise there are connections, but that's for the game masters, right? Yeah. And me.

Mattias: 21:22

We'll get back to that later. But twenty seven months ago when the when Wendelin people came to this area, they met the Marian people, the ones that came before.

Matthew: 21:43

Central people This isn't the whole human elf conflict. This is

Mattias: 21:49

Wait. I'm getting to that. Because the Marian people, the first come, one of the first things they told the Vandelions was that in the great forest to the west lives elves that are, and they even call them demons.

Matthew: 22:12

Oh, right. Yeah,

Mattias: 22:14

so they're super hostile elves, and there were some clashes early on leading to the Wendelins, one of the first tasks even before they started partitioning the land amongst the siblings. Again, this is ancient lore, so you don't know about all the details. But they built a wall along the border river towards the forest, and over the years the elves have sort of been a constant threat, definitely, and they have used changelings and sleeper cells inside the city states to stage attacks and acts of sabotage and whatnot over the years, but they have never mustered a full out offensive until twenty seven months ago, and there is still a lot of debate of what happened, why it happened, exactly how it came to be, but they managed to breach the central section of the wall, and they swarmed in not only elves but beasts and all kinds of demonic creatures, swarmed in and basically massacred people and devastated the land. So the map that you might have seen on the Kickstarter page, that's actually from before this invasion. And so instead of, you know, the map with Davukar Forest, and you get to venture out and try to explore it, find out what's under the the canopy, In this case, you are heading out basically into a post apocalyptic world that just twenty seven months ago was yours.

Mattias: 24:27

And you need to try to figure out again. Okay, you can head out just to loot what's left in abandoned estates and whatnot. But more interesting for most people is to try to figure out what happened. Is the elves still there? What are they doing?

Mattias: 24:51

There are of course numerous reports from scout vessels sent along the shores, and also allegedly expeditions that had travelled inland. But what to believe is, yeah, it's very much like Davoca. It's hard to say what's true and what's just make believe and sensationalism. But there are a couple of places where people more or less agree that the elves are still there and they're doing something. And what more, besides bewitching the landscape with this, that's at least the common understanding of things that this morphosis, this twisted, warped, changed nature is a result of elven witchcraft.

Mattias: 25:50

But they seem to be causing enormous amount of corruption as well. And to what end? Like, maybe someone know knows, but you will not at the start of the game except the game master.

Matthew: 26:10

And so nobody knows the reason I mean, from old enmities, nobody knows the reason why there was this sudden influx of elves.

Mattias: 26:19

I mean there of course there are those who claim that. I mean either they finally found a way using changelings or allies among the humans to breach the wall. That may be one reason why this happened. A thousand years is, you know, just a wink of an eye for for the elder elves. So maybe they were in no rush.

Mattias: 26:48

They just waited for the right opportunity. Others claim that something vital actually happened, but it seems yeah, no one really knows what that would be.

Matthew: 27:01

And nobody's asking Yelds?

Mattias: 27:07

Maybe. Maybe there is communication between the Chancellor, Chancellor Aldamal mentioned in that report. He has now taken over as the leader of the safe haven around Armarat City, which is sort of where you start playing, small piece of cake down by the coast. I know, can you see this? So Oh, it's mirrored.

Mattias: 27:40

So my finger is going the wrong way. So there is one river. There you

Matthew: 27:45

have one.

Mattias: 27:46

And you have one more here. Yeah. And then you have the shore. Yeah. And this is Armarat City.

Mattias: 27:56

So this is sort of where you start the game. And, yeah, exactly what is out there you don't know, but you have of course heard a lot of stuff about it. There's a ban that prohibits people basically similar but much harsher than the explorer's license in Davocar. In this case it is basically prohibited to leave this area, because A) all people are needed B) if you leave you cannot come back, because the diseases and the strange stuff that's happening, the corruption. Maybe you leave and you don't return, but instead some elf witch comes back in Europe wearing your skin, you know.

Mattias: 28:51

So still, there are of course a lot of rumors going about of expedition actually leaving. Bribing, maybe the chancellor has, you know, agreed to some of them or even orchestrated some of them. People need to know what's out there. And also, I mean, you can go out there some have relatives that never made it to the haven, but they might be alive out there somewhere. So there are people who who leave.

Mattias: 29:33

That much is known. And

Matthew: 29:38

so is I'm just I'm just trying to understand the scope of this invasion or this ruin across across the city states is right across the city states, maybe except for the city that you were pointing out on the map that everything starts in.

Mattias: 29:56

There are rumors that, again, I can show you the map. Yeah. This is not going good. You should turn me back, so I'm I'm mirrored. This lake, and you have this island here, That's actually one of the city state centers called Jezebel, and people are living there still.

Mattias: 30:21

And most people believe that the elves never

Matthew: 30:29

And came there, crossed the

Mattias: 30:33

then you have up here the swampy city state of Malahal, sort of the black sheep of the city states. That's pretty far away, and people don't usually travel much in this realm nowadays. But rumour has it that the Malahals also either were spared or managed to fight back the elves initially, and there are some conflicts brewing up there. But if they have to do with the elves or not, that is kind of unclear. You have to go there, you know, figure it out.

Matthew: 31:20

And and find out.

Mattias: 31:21

Or be the game master.

Matthew: 31:24

Well, okay. That brings me on to actually an issue. Are we going to see a big multipart campaign like the Throne of Thorns?

Mattias: 31:33

Not like the Throne of Thorns because I'm too old for that shit. Sorry. Basically basically, that's actually the way it is. No. I I don't think this this setting has been designed for a campaign, definitely, but it will not be as large scale, and maybe there is room for for more smaller adventures.

Matthew: 32:05

Right.

Mattias: 32:07

So that's one thing. I don't know if you saw that we opened up the same kind of open lines as the Green Table Talk. Yeah. I mean, there's always also the option for people to to both produce and now publish Mhmm. Their own adventures here in Davocar or elsewhere.

Mattias: 32:38

I myself, I am a little bit curious about visiting like the realm of the order and the free town and the coast. Yeah, there's so many stories left to tell in the world of syndrome, so I'm not very worried that we will run out of stories. The only what forced me to abandon Davocar, as I see it forced me to is the fact that I really, really wanted the end of the campaign to be open Open. And allow for a lot of player agency.

Matthew: 33:27

So there's not every table might have a different No. Not every

Mattias: 33:32

table, but but yeah. Basically. Yeah. So and I'm I'm growing more and more fond of this setting now, of course. The more I explore it the more curious I get about what's behind the crests and the bends of this part of the world.

Matthew: 33:52

Brilliant. Actually this touches on Devakar and that brings brings up another question from Andy who says and I guess we have to be careful with the wording here. He asks will there be more will there still be material published for Ambria Davakar or will the focus shift to the city state sale? I guess what we have to say is, obviously, now it's free to anybody anybody to publish anything on any part of the world that they want. But in terms of the, for lack of a better word, official line,

Mattias: 34:29

are you

Matthew: 34:29

are we gonna see anything from Davaka, or is it all gonna be city states for the moment for the foreseeable future?

Mattias: 34:36

At the moment, we are going to shift focus to this new setting. I have ideas about going back, but maybe not in the same timeline then.

Matthew: 34:51

Mhmm.

Mattias: 34:52

Think of doing a dark symborum with, you know, at the height of the Irian empire. The whole Lake Volguma is is, can't see the water because all of the feathers. No, that would be horrible. That would be dark, Symborum, yeah, indeed. No, so I think I answered the question.

Mattias: 35:19

For me and the rest of the team, actually we want to leave that part of the setting now to you. And if you care to continue exploring it or not, that's totally up to you. If you don't, we hope that you will find this setting. I mean they are not connected.

Matthew: 35:43

When

Mattias: 35:45

you start to explore this you will find both similarities and direct ties. I mean, in the haven, Armarath Haven, you have people from both the realm of the order and from Ambria. So one of the things, I mean, if you in this setting want to play a mystic, there is a pretty newly formed organization or faction, you say, called the circle of true mystics,

Matthew: 36:24

who

Mattias: 36:26

claim that in order to win back the land you have to sort of be prepared to forgo the old ways and actually accept that power corrupts real power. And they are sort of openly active in the city of Armarat, and the chancellor hasn't done anything which is one of the many talks of the town, why the chancellor hasn't acted. But no, he he apparently he he lets them go on. And and in in a place like that, you will find people from from Ambria definitely, or with roots in Ambria or other places of the city.

Matthew: 37:22

And I I before we move on to other questions, just wanna come back to MorphoSys, this this this thing. So when when you're using this new radical alchemy, sort of stuff? It sounds a bit like it could be shape changing to you.

Mattias: 37:41

Well, yeah. Aside from the it's a little bit silly, but the radical alchemists themselves are maybe not known to be super cool people, more like

Matthew: 38:00

yeah,

Mattias: 38:02

action nerds. Yeah, they call it flash mixing, you know, when you mix and match different components to get certain effects. There's also something called alchemical augmentations, which are more like you actually insert surgically insert alchemical components into people

Matthew: 38:27

or others,

Mattias: 38:30

and you have some kind of effect that lasts for for like a full day, twenty four hours. Well, mean there are again rumors claiming that there are ways to make these augmentations permanent, but that's kind of silly.

Matthew: 38:52

That's dangerous and bad.

Mattias: 38:53

Yeah, that's silly. Yeah, anyway speaking a little bit about MorphoSys, people familiar with Symbrium and the Davoca region know that at least according to the elves and the witches, the world can be understood in reference to three principles or powers called and while corruption sort of mirrors the wrath of creation when it becomes twisted and exploited and used and cultivated and whatnot, That gives rise to corruption, right? There are theories that says that morphosis is sort of its antithesis. The raw creation. People who have played Throne of Thorns have met the boy Alwyn.

Mattias: 40:08

People who have read that report you referenced know about the Archipelago, which is a set of islands south of the city state region. Islands, rumor has it that nature is going bananas, you know. Things change form, shape, and even blink out of existence at an alarming rate down there. So some people actually believe that what has happened in the vanillin realm is that it has become infected somehow by whatever is plaguing the archipelago. So this will be a new rule element as well Mhmm.

Mattias: 41:03

On the new character sheet or the character sheet you use when playing in this part of the Yeah. World you will also have a value for MorphoSys, just like for corruption and temporary and permanent. So it's it will be it's not a balancing act in the sense that you can get rid of one by attracting the other. It's not like that. Instead you can basically you can walk around in this world being both blight marked and warp marked.

Matthew: 41:47

Right, so just to clarify then, the morphosis counter field on your character sheet is in addition to a corruption field. You can still get corrupted in this world.

Mattias: 42:01

Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Matthew: 42:02

Yeah. Cool. Okay. Now you mentioned earlier on the realm of order. I think that's

Mattias: 42:12

actually Yeah. The realm of yeah. The the realm of the world. Yeah.

Matthew: 42:15

And in Swedish, that is forgive my terrible Swedish pronunciation. Please. Please. Ordenslandet.

Mattias: 42:22

That's basically like a native.

Matthew: 42:27

Obviously, yeah. And I have a question about Swedish coming up as well. So that's mentioned in Agrella. Will we be getting a whole lot more about the realm of order in this new setting?

Mattias: 42:50

No, not in this setting. There will be just about as many references to that area as to Ambria, I would say. I mean, the realm of the order lies about halfway between those two greater realms. No, I think the realm of the order might become the topic of either a freestanding module, like for instance the Agrella book that was obviously just one city, but

Matthew: 43:31

the

Mattias: 43:33

realm of the order is vast, but it's it's not very densely populated. It's it's basically populated by the refugees from from the elevation of Prios in Alberto when he was deemed to be the one. The other young gods were cast aside, and those who wouldn't accept that, they fled west and established the realm of the order.

Matthew: 44:06

Okay. But we yeah. There's more I mean, this touches on an interesting thing, though. So Mhmm. Obviously, you've you've released the free tabletop license so people can create their own stuff for this world.

Matthew: 44:22

What's to stop somebody going, oh, the role of the order. That's a little known idea that I've mentioned in this book. Let's let's expand that.

Mattias: 44:31

And they can have their own cool if someone did. And if I don't like it, I will do an official version.

Matthew: 44:39

But if somebody else did the work and you liked it, you might go, yep, that'll do. Yeah. Cool.

Mattias: 44:44

Yeah. I mean, from now on, I I feel, of course there is part of me, a pretty childish and pretentious part that wants to own the world of Symbroom, And, yeah, I don't know. It's gone a little bit more quiet after I finished the the the throne of thorns. Mhmm. And, also, as I'm getting older and I get more and more involved in other games, not least Dragonbane,

Matthew: 45:27

but

Mattias: 45:27

also other stuff that will be announced before long, I feel that why why not what?

Matthew: 45:36

Sorry. I said, oh, other stuff that will be announced before long.

Mattias: 45:43

You know, it it feels like we should we should really help each other out here and and let the creative uses flow.

Matthew: 45:54

Yeah, and you've got a good Symbroom community, haven't you? Man,

Mattias: 46:02

they spoil us all the time Yeah. In both, like, how they no. I I shouldn't go into to features or specifics, but I I really enjoy the fan base that we do have because they

Matthew: 46:21

are amazing. There's also a bunch of more specific questions about kind of more the production and the, you know, what this new version's gonna be like. So Yeah.

Mattias: 46:34

Still no questions about what's in the core books.

Matthew: 46:38

Yeah. So this is kind of you are gonna be pulling together into these new books a set of rules that have been scattered right across the campaign and all the other books you've done, and you're gonna be doing a a job a little bit like, I guess, Free League did with the one ring where Maybe. Yeah. You know, a bunch of rules added on to the different supplements, and they kind of some of them weren't in balance for the rest of the game. So a big sort of spring clean was done for the second edition of the one wing.

Matthew: 47:12

Are you planning to do that?

Mattias: 47:14

Yeah. It it will be not spring cleaning. It's an inventory and a rearrangement of the I'm picturing a grocery store now.

Matthew: 47:30

Right.

Mattias: 47:30

So we're doing inventory, and we are looking at what goes with what, and rearranging the shelves. Right? And then we will also look at some of the specific groceries and and maybe look at ordering that particular kind of food stuff from someplace else, meaning tweaking some stuff here and there. Yeah. So and I if you want, I can get into it a little bit more.

Mattias: 48:06

Again, the the work is not entirely It's not finished, meaning that because a rule set is a system, right? So if we find out that we want to change something, it will affect everything else. Mhmm. And then if we and those things may be stuff that we have already tweaked, and then we find out that, okay, with this change done, we need to go back and rework the changes we made before. So it's it's a it's a little bit of a job, but it's it's good fun, and it's it's much needed.

Mattias: 48:53

We have for the English version, I think we are on the seventh or eighth printing of the core book now. And we have done at least up until the sixth printing, have done tweaks. Tweaks. We have a pretty meaty erota that you can download for free to see what changes we have done over the years. And it's clarifications and sometimes also changes of specific the working of specific skills or mystical powers or whatnot.

Matthew: 49:35

Yeah. I'm being asked though about other bigger changes. I'm gonna quote, this is Nos Jomo. He's one of your Swedish fans. Mhmm.

Matthew: 49:44

He says, has the design philosophy changed since first edition? And particularly he's referencing the balance between sorry. No. Actually, I'm reading that wrong. What matters most?

Matthew: 49:59

He says, balance, narrative, or atmosphere?

Mattias: 50:06

Are Symbron will never place balance on a pedestal, but we will never put that baby in the corner either. Man, I'm just on fire tonight.

Matthew: 50:24

So many metaphors.

Mattias: 50:25

So many metaphors. No, balance. We will do some rebalancing this time around, mainly stuff that we way back when we created the game didn't fully realize the effects the mechanics would have in certain instances. My favorite go to example is the robust berserker two handed sword wielding with iron fist. You can have that character from start and roll one d ten, one d six, and two d fours for damage, while some other character roles, you know, a d four.

Mattias: 51:24

Or d four, but then probably not a combat oriented character. But a pretty standard character can roll one d eight. Right? Yeah. So and that that is that is not fair, I think, to the game master because it it makes the game mastering such a hassle.

Mattias: 51:46

Being being, you know, you wanna challenge everyone at the table Yeah. At a level. So stuff like that will be looked over and addressed.

Matthew: 52:00

Right. So so nerfing some of the more powerful things then, I guess?

Mattias: 52:05

Nerfing some and maybe tuning up some other stuff as well.

Matthew: 52:13

And while we're while we're in Sweden speaking to a Swedish fan Mhmm. I've gotta ask a question about Swedish because, of course, first edition Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All came out in Swedish Yeah.

Matthew: 52:24

And English. Maybe was it at the beginning, was it Swedish first before it was English even?

Mattias: 52:29

Yeah. Yeah. All the way to Awakens and, like, in Llau as well. And we have a yeah.

Matthew: 52:36

And, obviously, we've seen in the announcement and in the chatter around the announcement that for this edition, at the moment, it seems at least only English is planned. Do we have any plans to do Swedish as a stretch goal or anything like that?

Mattias: 52:53

I can mean nothing is really out of the question depending on how the kickstarter goes, but there are no such plans. The reason is simply that it takes for one thing, today we have and we have that we will continue to produce and publish in both languages. In Swedish, yeah. But that comes with a cost, and that cost spells time. Time and energy, actually, because working with two different I mean Coriolis was I was briefly in charge of Coriolis game line, where we also had different book formats for

Matthew: 54:00

Yeah.

Mattias: 54:01

Swedish and English, meaning that you had to do a a totally brand new layout between the languages. But but all in all, it feels to me that that it takes so much time and energy time and energy, I would rather spend producing new stuff. Yeah. So that that is the main reason, and it's no, for me, it's it's been something I've actually longed for. So Also, the challenge of writing directly in in your native tongue, That is I

Matthew: 54:48

I find it a challenge enough.

Mattias: 54:52

We'll see how it goes. Maybe it turns out really, really crappy. I don't know. We'll

Matthew: 54:57

see. You talked a bit about, you know, layout and the big differences there. Are we going to see a new visual language for the rule books, the new rule books?

Mattias: 55:10

A new graphic design? Yeah. Funny you should ask. I have a a secret member of the team who is currently looking at tweaking the design. So

Matthew: 55:28

a tweak rather than a tokari design do you think or?

Mattias: 55:31

No definitely. If you mean like how a spread is laid out in the book.

Matthew: 55:37

So I mean the example in the question, this is a question from Leo and he said obviously there's a big difference between alien and alien evolved. Right. The biggest difference being white paper as opposed to black pages. But, you know, everything that went with that. So I think that's the sort of scale of difference that he's Yeah.

Mattias: 56:01

I the the the mission is that I've what I would love is for people to recognize this sort of difference between the anniversary edition and the older stuff.

Matthew: 56:21

The old editions. Yeah.

Mattias: 56:22

And you have already seen if you looked at the Kickstarter, the new logotype, which is basically this one, but with a small, here. Down here, you can see a small, Roman numero 10. Right, yes. For sort of the anniversary. Yeah.

Mattias: 56:49

So internally or at least in my office, this new line, game line or book line is unofficially called Symbroom 10.

Matthew: 57:04

Cool, like System 10 when they introduced System 10 for the Apple.

Mattias: 57:10

Operation. Exactly. Precisely.

Matthew: 57:13

Great big x. Yeah.

Mattias: 57:16

Don't say x, please.

Matthew: 57:20

It's a 10. Right. So it'll be interesting to see more of that as it comes out. And there was talk around that, obviously, kind of halfway through the first edition, you changed the way that stat blocks

Mattias: 57:35

work. Yeah. And and those would have actually been updated again because it's just stupid that you don't have stuff like initiative in those stat blocks. I also want to distinguish between armor and ignore damage, which are two separate. So if you are robust or have the berserker ability for instance, in its current form, you have the ability to totally ignore damage.

Mattias: 58:07

So even if someone has the master level of of 200 force that sort of breaks armor, they can't still can't sort of penetrate that. It's basically extra hit points or toughness. Yeah. Extra toughness. So I want to distinguish between those in the stat block and make it even clearer which abilities and powers are integrated in the stat block already, sort of calculated for you, and which abilities that you as a game master need to, you know, game master actively, so to speak.

Mattias: 58:58

Cool. So, yeah, there will be be an a new another update of the stat book, making it even more practical, I hope, I think.

Matthew: 59:09

Brilliant. We're we're all about usability Yeah. In in design. And then just sort of, again, following on from that a little bit, but not so much about the looks but the words, are you gonna retranslate or are you gonna tweak the text from Symbic Room one or at least give it a thorough edit?

Mattias: 59:30

Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew: 59:30

Yeah. Or will it be largely unchanged?

Mattias: 59:32

No. We will we are working through it. And, I mean, the biggest change is, of course, the structure of things. So now you have a a chapter or a section with game rules that includes, for instance, shadow and corruption

Matthew: 59:54

Mhmm.

Mattias: 59:54

Which we, for some reason, we felt they belonged in the game master section in the the Right. The current edition of the core book. I don't know really how we were what we were thinking. So everything will be

Matthew: 01:00:13

They all seemed like a good idea at the time.

Mattias: 01:00:15

Yeah. It it did. And then, again, we will introduce a lot of material from the advanced players guide. I can tell you one thing actually. Mhmm.

Mattias: 01:00:24

In the advanced players guide, there's something called professions

Matthew: 01:00:28

Mhmm.

Mattias: 01:00:29

That are linked to either your archetype or your occupation. And those will give away for something that is called master abilities instead.

Matthew: 01:00:44

Mhmm.

Mattias: 01:00:45

That are basically those abilities and powers and some more, but they are not at all locked behind choices you make as character creation.

Matthew: 01:01:05

Ah, yeah.

Mattias: 01:01:06

And because we felt that that that isn't very simple, actually. Locking in mechanics behind, you know, character creation Choose

Matthew: 01:01:17

just low skill now and then it will pay you dividends when yeah.

Mattias: 01:01:21

No, in this case, in order to get one of these expert abilities, you need to have reached a certain level in a number of other abilities. Yeah. So it's kind of similar to how professions worked, but not no longer related to occupations or or archetypes.

Matthew: 01:01:46

Cool. I've got a couple more questions I wanna rush through because we're we're heading up to an hour now, which No.

Mattias: 01:01:52

I know. I know. I know.

Matthew: 01:01:53

That's the entire program. I you you saved us a bunch of work on on Sunday. It'll be really, this is this is good stuff. So but, let me just have a look at my notes here.

Mattias: 01:02:07

I don't wanna stop. So No. I'm sure you don't.

Matthew: 01:02:10

I mean, it's great. I'm enjoying it. Hope you can come back. Maybe we can invite you back while the while the campaign is still on. Once once we've this one out of the way.

Mattias: 01:02:19

Yeah yeah.

Matthew: 01:02:19

Got time. Oh I've I've lost the questioner. So yeah sorry it's a question about you know there's a little bit of a concern I saw in the social media when the tenth edition was not tenth, the anniversary edition was announced that, oh, once upon a time, we had a core book that gave us everything. Now we're gonna get free books like did, and we gotta, you know, we gotta get both ebooks. And I remember commenting to somebody somewhere.

Matthew: 01:02:58

Well, hold on now. It's

Mattias: 01:02:59

It's Symbaron.

Matthew: 01:03:00

They say very clearly the core book is the whole game. What what is gonna be and what is gonna feel additional for the game masters book and the and the bestiary?

Mattias: 01:03:14

Yeah. A lot more options, of course.

Matthew: 01:03:17

Mhmm.

Mattias: 01:03:18

But I again, the the core rule book will be just that. It will just like the one you have now have a bestiary, it will have tutorial adventure, it will have you know what is added to it that I think was really missing in the current one is light rules for wild wilderness expeditions, specifically forest expeditions into Davoca. So so that has been added, but the game master's guide is basically not very neither the Game Master's Guide or the BCA are super dissimilar from what we have today. Again, there have been rearrangements made, and in the beast area for instance, we will have some more entries when it comes to monsters and adversaries definitely. But instead, the the section about balanced combat resistance, that one has been moved to the core book, to the game master section in the core book, just to name one example.

Mattias: 01:04:48

You will have all the new stat blocks of course, and there will be oh, there will be an actual anniversary edition as well, you know, sort of collector's edition. The three books. Been pondering the design today. I have an idea. I want to run it by my friends, colleagues first.

Matthew: 01:05:19

Can run it by the world

Mattias: 01:05:20

right now. I know. I know. But I better not because

Matthew: 01:05:25

But my related to that, I've actually got one question here. We can we look forward to a reprint or representation for the tenth anniversary of the Throne of Thorns campaign?

Mattias: 01:05:47

Mean eventually, definitely yes.

Matthew: 01:05:50

Okay good good good.

Mattias: 01:05:51

Get another version and

Matthew: 01:05:53

we'll Can I probably some be sort of collector slip case in a deluxe version?

Mattias: 01:05:57

Ah that is not a bad idea.

Matthew: 01:06:00

Okay. No. That comes from bitter cold. Yeah. It will probably

Mattias: 01:06:06

be, like, in the five e version, will be three books. Still six episodes, but three books.

Matthew: 01:06:14

Three books.

Mattias: 01:06:15

And, oh, I can I have an announcement to make? You love announcements. I know that.

Matthew: 01:06:21

We do. And actually, this is about Ruins of Symblom, it

Mattias: 01:06:24

may seem the

Matthew: 01:06:26

next question. Okay. Tell me what's what's this announcement?

Mattias: 01:06:31

It is that the kickstarter will actually cover five hardback volumes, the fifth one being a setting book about Davocara. So all the setting information and lore and a lot of, you know, adventure landscapes and stuff that we have released over the years and have been here, there, everywhere have now been together into one volume. So you get sort of in this, and this is have so long to do this, you get three core books instead of four, and then you get a Davocore setting book, and you get the new setting

Matthew: 01:07:18

setting book.

Mattias: 01:07:20

If you never wanna play the throne of thorns, you can still get hold of the, general Something and lore.

Matthew: 01:07:32

Very tempting.

Mattias: 01:07:34

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it's very much similar to what we did in again. We started sort of at least in our minds doing this work when we did the 5E conversion, because that one is also the setting in one tone. It's called the world of Symbarum, and it cannot be called that now. So it will be Davocaine and Ambria something something, Still

Matthew: 01:08:10

So that was that was the question. What happens to the ruins of Symbarium line now? Are we

Mattias: 01:08:16

Yeah.

Matthew: 01:08:16

With that, or what's happening?

Mattias: 01:08:18

I mean, we are yet to release the

Matthew: 01:08:22

The last bit of the campaign. Oh.

Mattias: 01:08:25

I actually got a a test print

Matthew: 01:08:28

Oh. From Another one.

Mattias: 01:08:31

Today, and, it looks really nice. So it will be it will I I don't know exactly when it will be printed, when when the actual printers will start, and, you know, shipping today is sort of an interesting adventure, shipping stuff worldwide, so we'll see when when it will release. We also have a very full release schedule. Anyway, your question, is warranted. We haven't decided yet if we are going to do the city states of Vandalin for 5E.

Mattias: 01:09:13

We might, but it's not decided yet.

Matthew: 01:09:19

Right.

Mattias: 01:09:20

We have, I mean, this should be we have released the whole game line of the current Symbronum game Yeah. In four years,

Matthew: 01:09:37

I think.

Mattias: 01:09:38

So given that, I think five e players who are enjoying the the ruins of Symbronum, they have stuff to do for some time.

Matthew: 01:09:48

A little while yet. A little while more. Yeah. And this new book about to come out after all.

Mattias: 01:09:54

Yeah. Exactly.

Matthew: 01:09:55

Cool. Right. Well, we shall hold on with bated breath. And then the last one, this is from from Blue Sky and from Mad Beard Man, and he asks, is there gonna be some sort of trading offer on my nearly new excellent condition version one of Zimbabwe?

Mattias: 01:10:17

I don't know how that would look. Luckily, the cool of the things we we decided when we set out to do this is that it is not a new edition in the sense that it is sort of like Coriolis where you

Matthew: 01:10:37

time.

Mattias: 01:10:37

Completely yeah. Yeah. Completely new setting, completely new rule set. So this is I'm calling it an anniversary edition, but it's not a new edition of Simba. And you will the idea is that with or without the erota you should be able to to play sort of the new setting with

Matthew: 01:11:08

With the old rule books.

Mattias: 01:11:10

With the old rule books. You will, of course, as always is with, again, with the reprints we did and the changes we did between those. Yeah, we made a Narottta and that is sort of I mean, I won't lie. I hope that people have sort of gone through their old core books to some extent. I know that my first versions of the core book, they are

Matthew: 01:11:44

Lone out. Pages falling out.

Mattias: 01:11:46

Oh, yeah. Pages falling out and whatnot. So maybe maybe some of you will some of the the you who are already playing the game will consider supporting this endeavor by by looking at that.

Matthew: 01:12:03

You know us. We are gamers.

Mattias: 01:12:06

Yeah.

Matthew: 01:12:06

Yeah. We'll get the new edition. We always do. It no. We might grudge about it, but all they all complain that Alien was was too new for a a new edition.

Matthew: 01:12:19

Had only been five years old or whatever. Yeah. And yet everybody seemed to, a lot of people seemed to buy it, shall we say.

Mattias: 01:12:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hope that proves true. And in this case, I hope also that people agree that something had to be done. It's actually a bit overdue.

Matthew: 01:12:41

No, there wasn't. There was none of that, you know, accusation. Oh, they're just doing a money grab on alien. There's none of that with Symbrium. Everybody I've seen so far has been saying, well, about time too to connect all those orgs together.

Mattias: 01:12:58

So No. We will, of course, do our very best to make sure that you have sort of you who doesn't feel like spending more money on on new a new core book re recently purchased. We will make sure that the Arata is up to date, at least on release. Yeah. Yeah.

Mattias: 01:13:21

There's quite a lot of stuff on my plate right now.

Matthew: 01:13:26

Cool. Well, I'm gonna let you next

Mattias: 01:13:29

six months.

Matthew: 01:13:29

It's evening as we're talking here so I'm gonna let you get to bed get a good night's rest so that you can wake up bright and refreshed tomorrow morning and start dealing with all the stuff that's on your plate. Thank you very much Matthias for making the time to come to talk to us. And remember, as you're hearing this, it'll be about two two weeks and two days before the Kickstarter starts. There will, of course, be a link in the show notes. But thank you

Mattias: 01:13:58

for I I share the video with those signed up for the Kickstarter? You can do updates now nowadays.

Matthew: 01:14:08

Oh, yeah.

Mattias: 01:14:08

They can see a little bit q and a.

Matthew: 01:14:11

Yep. No. I'm very happy to do that. We'll we'll send you a link as soon as it's done. Remember, it's not video.

Matthew: 01:14:17

It will just be an audio only podcast because we're old school.

Mattias: 01:14:19

Right. Right.

Matthew: 01:14:21

Well, that was a brilliant chat with Matthias. He's always such good value and one of our longest serving guests on the episode. If you want to well, I don't know how far you have to go back to find his first appearance. Anyway, I I not much more I can add to to that interview. We've already gone for well over the hour, so I'm going to say it's good well, it's not goodbye from Dave because he's not here, but it is goodbye from him.

Matthew: 01:14:51

And

Mattias: 01:14:51

May the icons and the old gods bless your adventures.

Matthew: 01:15:00

You have been listening to the effect podcast presented by Fiction Suit and the RPG gods. Music stars on a black sea used