Englishmen drink tea/beer and shall we say ... "shoot the breeze"?
Hello, and welcome to episode 272 of eFeCT. Englishman drinking tea and or beer and shooting the shit. I'm Matthew.
Dave:And I'm Dave.
Andrew:And I'm Andrew.
Tony:And I'm Tony.
Dave:And we have a, as always, a packed program. But as you can tell, we have some
Tony:Stop saying that. Can I just interject for yourself? I know you've talked about this before.
Dave:Stop saying it.
Tony:But your challenge is
Dave:Stop saying it.
Tony:To stop saying we have a packed show, even even when it's true.
Dave:But in this PAC show today, rather
Matthew:than an important lead listener to the podcast, so
Dave:Well, Obviously. No. It's it's it's one of those ticks, though, that is actually gonna be quite difficult. But we can discipline ourselves. Anyway, as as our listeners can tell, we have foolishly invited a couple of other people onto the show
Andrew:Yeah. Stupid. Fool.
Tony:Yeah. Just happened to be here.
Dave:Yeah. Yeah. We could tell you to fuck up in the other room, maybe, but
Matthew:I think
Tony:that's an option.
Dave:Should we
Andrew:go down the pub?
Matthew:No. But Bob's leaving.
Dave:He's leaving
Matthew:you in now.
Dave:By the time
Tony:you get
Dave:there
Andrew:I'll drive, I don't get
Matthew:We'll be done.
Dave:I don't know if Tony wants to go in the car with you when he's, you know anyway No.
Andrew:Hold on, mate.
Dave:We are at our lovely farmhouse retreat in the middle of Norfolk, in the middle of nowhere for our annual weekend away, which has been great fun. It's now Sunday evening, we've played three of our four games and had a really good time. But today, obviously, we are doing the podcast in a slightly different way. So we don't have so much, I don't think, in the way of Yeah.
Matthew:Word gaming. Not
Dave:a densely
Matthew:packed for the world of gaming.
Dave:We don't
Matthew:know what's going on no idea.
Dave:In the world of gaming this week. We were at Dragon Meet a couple of weeks ago or a week ago, so we will talk a little bit about that.
Matthew:Yeah. Yeah.
Dave:Then I think we're just gonna, you know, as Matt said, shoot the shit a little bit just about what we've been playing this weekend and, the games we've been finding an awful lot.
Matthew:Well, I think we've got some old West news that we want to bring people up
Dave:to today. I guess we've got a little bit of Old West news too.
Matthew:Yeah. As well. So and as our Internet connection here is not great. I could probably look up new patrons, but if you've recently subscribed to the patronage,
Dave:thank you
Matthew:very much. We will be shouting you out in our next episode where I could actually have a a pretty solid
Dave:And, obviously, we we love we love
Matthew:We love you all.
Dave:New innocent patrons who join us, unlike those who've been around for a long time.
Matthew:You then No. We love them all. Around for a long time as well.
Dave:Offer feedback like Tony's in the last five minutes. But I have nothing to say. We well, I'm really pleased you're here on a podcast then, mate. If you have absolutely anything to say, that's
Andrew:that's can't laugh. I'm not allowed to laugh. I forgot about that.
Dave:To laugh. Stop laughing. Just being happy is just stupid.
Andrew:No. Know. Disgusting, isn't it?
Dave:But, yes, anyway. So
Matthew:so shall we start off with world gaming? Well, we haven't got world gaming, shall we start off with old world news.
Tony:Old West. Old West news.
Dave:You can see the so, you know, clearly, the the whole professionalism thing isn't isn't really a thing, is it? It was very much.
Matthew:It never was.
Dave:And the fire's gone out, by the way, it looks. Yeah.
Andrew:I'll do that. Andy Andy do
Dave:that because he's good at doing that.
Matthew:And and
Dave:Matthew, yes, so Old West News, what have we got to say?
Matthew:So the exciting thing well, one of the exciting things comes in the Dragon Beet crossover, but I think we should mention it, But the really exciting thing is we are back in stock. Our reprint has arrived and you can buy it at not just our online store, but many many Many shops. Many shops.
Dave:There are shops in Germany, Sweden, USA, UK.
Matthew:No. We haven't got any in The USA yet.
Dave:We did have one in The USA though.
Matthew:Yeah. I think they were sold out of their store. Okay.
Dave:And they
Matthew:don't do mail order in The USA.
Dave:We did have a USA shop anyway, but But
Matthew:but hopefully, we'll get some more to The USA. So, we've we we did a big order. Well, big for us, maybe quite a modest order for the likes of Freely.
Dave:Oh, yeah.
Matthew:Yeah. And we have already sent a bunch of books to SF Bockhandlen
Tony:Stockholm. Three
Matthew:other branches and a mail order service. And
Dave:So it should be on-site in Stockholm, Gothenburg, I guess is one of the other branches.
Matthew:A couple of other places. Cool. Excellent. And Alfispell, who are in another town in Sweden. It'd be really good if we have the Internet and we can look this up for you, but Alpha Spell have also got stock and it's available from their website.
Matthew:They do mail order. And if your friendly local gaming store in Sweden wants copies to sell in their stand, they can get them from Alphaspell because Alphaspell got a few extra copies to be a bit of a kind of quasi A
Dave:little bit of distribution.
Matthew:Distribution hub for us. So, yeah, if if your local game shop would like to have one or two copies to sell or three or four or five or six,
Dave:you know,
Matthew:go one. Hundreds. Then they can get it from Alpha Smells. So Swedish fans listen to that and tell your local gaming store that can happen. Sphere Masters, Sphere Meisters forgive me German listeners, Sphere Masters which is a an online store and they go to conventions, they've also been restocked So you can get them get it from there in Germany.
Matthew:Cool. America's a slightly more complex factor. We do we we do wanna send a good number over to an American distributor who's a young distributor who's just starting up. That is going to take some time though because we couldn't do it straight from the printers, which is what I really hope to do.
Dave:Yeah. We had strongly hoped to do that, in fact, but, obviously, that didn't happen. And otherwise, it's quite it's very expensive. Doesn't it? I will run now.
Matthew:This this week, it proved horrendously expensive because apparently, we're sending loads of stuff to The US. And so we were we've quoted one price of £10,000 which was air mail given, would A private jet
Dave:that way. Buy a seat unconquered.
Matthew:And another price was considerably less but still more than we want to pay. Yeah, we'll sort that out after the Christmas period and we will be announcing shortly a distributor come mail order hub in The US for you to buy your copies from there,
Dave:but when will
Matthew:that be? As
Dave:soon as, yeah, as soon as we can manage that, yeah. But that's really good, that's really exciting and for us I think it's really good, I mean it's a real validation that we've been able to been needed to do a reprint of another as as Matthew said, like, for us, it's it's a small run, but, you know, it's 800 books, which is which is a lot for us. And being able to do that again is, again, a real validation of, yeah, how popular the game has been and and how well it's doing. And, you know, we are we are ticking over on sales, and we do we are we are selling conventions, and people want to buy it, which is superb. So thank you everyone and if you've got friends, Christmas ideas, get out there and Tales of the Old West is a great Christmas present.
Matthew:Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I had a really interesting conversation with, I want to call him now James Masters because that's how I introduced him to Tom. But James Wallace, who is
Dave:So his name wasn't James Masters
Matthew:at all? He wasn't James Masters at all. He said, though I'd like to be Spike Out of Buffy, he said, but no. I'm James Wallace. I knew he was James Wallace, but I just called him James Masters in that moment.
Matthew:Because you've
Dave:seen a
Tony:you've seen
Dave:old farts.
Matthew:I've seen a lot of fart. Yes. It has to be said. Now James Wallace has been in the games industry for Yogs, he used to work for Games Workshop I think, he set up Hogshead Publishing which took on the role playing bit of all the Games Workshop properties so what I've found is you've got stuff like that. He's published other games as well, one of my favorite games of his is the Baron Munchausen role playing game which you basically all sit around a table and tell stories
Dave:to each other. Okay. I've never played that one.
Matthew:It's quite it's quite a good game if you are happy to
Dave:Like sitting around tables telling stories to each other.
Matthew:Everybody's pretending to be Baron Munchausen, which is kind of what Baron Munchausen did. That's a good laugh. But, you know, he's he's got experience, and one of the things he is is a consultant in the industry now. And so two things happened with him. He loved our book.
Matthew:He doesn't wanna buy the game. It's not his game. And in fact, he got a game coming out soon called cowboy, I think, which will be one of those two stat games where one stat is cow and the other hand is the other stat is boy. Okay. That'll be a more lighthearted Western game.
Matthew:Not as many details as us.
Dave:Not as good as ours.
Matthew:But he loved the look and feel of our book and particularly our logo, so which is why I introduced my son to it because my son had dirtied up our logo for us. And we talked a bit about print runs and stuff like that, and he was very impressed with our modest print runs. Too many people look at their Kickstarter success, look at how cheap a book gets when you do say 2,000 copies, and then end up with 1,500 copies in the house.
Dave:In the warehouse that they've got to pay for for the storage and everything.
Matthew:So he was quite impressed that we'd done that even though we were ordering a second print. And the other bit of news from Old West news from Dragon Meat. Well, we won an award.
Dave:We did. We came second. We got the silver award.
Matthew:We are first among the losers, as I like to say.
Dave:You've you've aspired to that your entire life, haven't you, mate? Yes. Yes. No. So we we won the silver award for the best role playing game, which was absolutely superb.
Dave:Yeah. And the the the the the selection committee, I'm not quite sure who was on it. But, yeah, we we got we got silver. Mappamundi got gold. We don't know if talk about that.
Matthew:They don't even have a blooming format system.
Dave:Some Chaosium game got got bronze.
Matthew:But some can I was just lucky matching it to Andy here?
Dave:Is that the Viking?
Matthew:He was the Viking. Yeah.
Andrew:But I was gonna say that if I did the Viking thing, I'd use the old Pendragon system.
Matthew:But
Dave:We can talk about it in a minute, mate. Yeah. That'd be quite interesting.
Matthew:But I think I
Dave:think it's just unusual for you, Andy.
Matthew:Vaguely, Age of Vikings does
Andrew:Well, I meant to be nice to you.
Matthew:A version of the fence.
Andrew:What?
Matthew:Fire.
Dave:Well, your point of
Andrew:your finger. What's that mean?
Dave:Andy, you
Matthew:Well, your
Andrew:point of your finger.
Dave:I'm sorry. Don't understand
Matthew:sign language. Podcast.
Dave:Andy is our expert fire a minute. Hang on. Where's that where's that flag button again?
Matthew:I might have to take that out. He gets that.
Dave:No. Andy is our expert fire maker or we just bully him into doing the fire the whole time. And he's just done the fire and he's gone out. So he's now gonna inhale huge amounts of smoke while he tries to get the fire going again. So anyway, if Andy survives this, we will come back to the question of using Pandragon for a Viking game because that was a really good conversation.
Dave:But yes, so delighted to get the silver award. I mean, that's really superb. I mean, couldn't really Thanks, Andy. Couldn't really didn't really expect anything like that whatsoever. And yeah, I mean, that's superb.
Dave:Again, what a vindication the effort we've put in to make the game that we wanted to play. We love playing because we have just, in fact, we finished playing it all day today.
Matthew:It's my favorite game that I've played. I mean, I love the adventure you did for L5R. I love the adventure you did for Sonic Worlds of Solomon Kane, but by god this is my favorite game. I'm sorry it's just the game that we created, so obviously it's our favorite game, Not just because we created it, but we created the game we wanted to play. Yes.
Matthew:Yes. So it's gonna be hard to get over that. I will just say, for the benefit of Alastair's, if if Andy does die from inhaling smoke
Dave:It'll be a shame.
Matthew:We will edit that out, so don't don't fear that if you carry on listening you're gonna be witness to a terrible death. I'll just subtly cut that out of the program.
Dave:Yeah. That's fine.
Matthew:We'll just forget we even introduced Andy
Dave:in the film. We can compress that, can't we? Yeah. Andy, there there are some fire lighters there if you just wanna light the fire trouble with love, isn't
Andrew:it? Rather
Dave:than sticking it
Andrew:like dying.
Dave:Well, I don't really want you to die, but Anyway The podcast is gonna have this heavy breathing in the background, isn't it? Okay. So what else do we wanna talk about?
Matthew:Well, then dragon meat. We we promised our listeners a Dragonmeat report. We should
Dave:do a Double
Matthew:Meat report that isn't just about us winning the silver Dragonmeat award.
Dave:So at Dragonmeat, we did really well. We won an award.
Matthew:And So, obviously, we're Dragonmeat in two guises, luckily, next door to each other.
Dave:So we were Oh, I see what you mean.
Matthew:Yeah. We we were Friedy. Yep. And then around the corner, we were Tales of the Old West.
Dave:We were Effect.
Matthew:We were Effect. Effect publishing. Selling one product, which is Tales of the Old West. Frieden did quite well financially speaking. It's alright.
Matthew:Yeah. I mean
Dave:It wasn't bad. It wasn't the best.
Matthew:It's been better. It it it was better financially the last couple of years.
Dave:So we did better this year than we did last
Matthew:year And the year before.
Dave:But not the year before.
Matthew:Not the year before.
Dave:So our record at Dragon Meet was two years ago, which as you keep on pointing out was the year when I wasn't there.
Matthew:So obviously, we were better at it than you are.
Dave:So obviously, I'm I'm I'm I'm not as good a shopkeeper as you are, which
Matthew:is fine.
Dave:I'm happy. I don't aspire to be the best shopkeeper in the world. But this was the first Dragon meet that wasn't at the Novotel in Hammersmith, and it was at the XL. So it was quite a big departure. And we've we've done conventions at the XL before, and it's fine.
Dave:It's it's a it's a it's a good location for us apart from the parking situation, which we've now found out could be slightly better. It's actually quite a good location. The hotels are half decent. They're not far away. The place itself is easy to navigate and to manage.
Dave:But it is just a giant warehouse with with with stands stuck in it.
Matthew:It lacks some of the Charm
Dave:and coziness.
Matthew:Of a hotel Yeah. Wedding wedding location event location.
Dave:I can totally get why John Big John Dodd, who's now running it, went there because, you know, they're able to sell more tickets, which was great. And I don't know what the numbers were in terms of on the door on day. But naturally it's a bigger place. There's more scope for more people to come. There's more scope for growth.
Dave:So hopefully Dragonmeat will go from strength to strength from here on in terms of numbers. But Dragonmead used to be a bit unique because it was in that lovely location. It was very cozy and intimate as you say. In terms of meeting all the other creators, everybody got together in the bar and hotel afterwards. On the Saturday night, we always went to Latimer's for a lovely Thai meal just down the road, which is always really cool.
Dave:And you don't get that with the XL. I know the Dragon Meat folks did create a or or put on a a creator event. Mhmm.
Tony:And that was on
Dave:the Saturday night, wasn't it? So I I left on the Saturday because very sadly, Diggy had passed away the week before. So I went home to so my wife wasn't on her own for too long.
Matthew:With no dog.
Dave:But I think, you know, you went along to it and it it it wasn't it wasn't quite the same.
Matthew:No. So actually, we didn't find the creative event on the Saturday. Did you not? Our plan was to go.
Dave:I may
Matthew:have misunderstood where the location was. I thought it was in the pub, but there were some creators in the pub, but nobody particularly we wanted to talk to. So Tom and I had a lovely pint of cider. And there is a thing, about going to a pub after an event and having a pint.
Dave:Yes.
Matthew:We both felt actually
Dave:because you need it.
Matthew:You need it. You need more after an event than than almost any other time, and it feels delicious. And I'm not normally a cider drinker, but when Tom ordered a cider, I can't remember the brand, but it was delicious, the hospital, so I can't remember. I have no idea. And I thought, oh, that does sound nice, and I had that too, and it went down very well.
Matthew:We did so I did quite well on my stand being, you know, a create. So this is one of the things that wound Dave up actually, is I kept calling the Freelig stand your stand, Dave. And
Dave:The effect stand, your stand. The effect stand was our stand. It just happened to be that you were working on it.
Matthew:I was working on it for the most part. Yeah. And obviously, our sales were nowhere near what we did for Free League.
Dave:No. Of course.
Matthew:But that was hampered and yet at the same time enhanced by the fact that we only had versions of the deluxe book on sale. So we were offering discounts but we were not giving the deluxe book away for the same price as the standard book which I think is a point of principle was quite a good one, and we're offering bundle deals and stuff like that, but I think each sale was a harder sell. I can't remember the number but we made over a thousand pounds and we've covered our costs.
Dave:We'll add some. Terms of busyness, how busy the convention was, it felt very busy for most of it. It tailed off quite markedly come half four, 05:00. But until then, it was it was a busy convention or felt a busy con convention. And I was I was I was struck by the fact that whenever I I looked around the corner, you look busy.
Dave:You had somebody there to talk to or, you know, more than one person. So it was it looked like there was good interest even if it didn't all immediately convert into a sale.
Matthew:Yeah. And, yes, a good interest. We had, as I said, decent enough sales, had a number of people. I picked up I think cards from a couple of artists, one of whom showed me her portfolio and I liked it very much, slightly toning down the cartooniness element of it, I think they might make some nice double page spreads.
Dave:Okay, cool, nice, nice.
Matthew:So we'll get her to do something.
Dave:Yeah, I'm not a big fan of too cartoony for terms of the odds.
Andrew:I know you're not,
Matthew:I warned her, I said, don't mind but my business partner Dave will look at that and he'll go, it's too cartoony.
Dave:It's a bit too cartoony.
Matthew:All in all it was good, I'm trying to think what other news we had from there. It was of course always great to see all our patrons and listeners. Yes. Absolutely. Hi.
Dave:Very disappointed that Tony didn't come.
Matthew:Why didn't you come, Tony?
Tony:I couldn't be bothered.
Matthew:Couldn't be bothered.
Dave:Well, isn't that a blow to the guts? Oh, thanks very much. You could've sweetened the pill. No. I guess, I mean, they had some space for gaming, as you would expect, but it was it was kind of hidden away.
Tony:Really? Because that's was was quite a big of a big part of Decree.
Dave:Yeah. Yeah.
Tony:It was at
Dave:the Navy Tale, wasn't it? Yeah. So there was the the the early organization was a bit haphazardous.
Matthew:I mean, it's a novel in the new sense of the word. We ended up with one extra table than Anna had ordered for us on the Free League stand, and I think some people ended up shorter tables, so things like that went on, and just the opening and which entrance you should go to. These are all teething troubles that I think are just the first time at a new event. Absolutely.
Andrew:But I think
Matthew:there is that issue the game playing sessions we're in in sort of seminar rooms that exist
Dave:In the wall. So
Matthew:there's no I guess you'd call it well, in my academic career I've suffered a thing called I've talked about a thing called spatial dynamics, which is where you instinctively know where to go in a building because of the way the building's laid out, and I think that's lacking
Dave:in the I think it will be easier next year when everyone because, you know, obviously the GMs are often the same year from year. Yeah. The players will often be the same. So having done it once, I suspect it will be a lot easier next year for people for most people. And but also, just a bit of better signage.
Tony:Yeah. Were there other kind of, like, smaller room areas where that gaming was happening? Because it feels like this. I've been to Excel for other events. It's like, like I just a massive, great hall.
Dave:I think they are. Because on on the outside wall, you had some stairs up, and I think there were rooms there
Matthew:Above the
Dave:walls actually. Of in the outside wall space. Now I never didn't go up
Tony:No.
Matthew:To see The problem is you didn't turn up to relieve Dave so that he could go and explore. So if you'd turned up, we'd know this a lot more. Or indeed, you could be talking about the gaming spaces you played in, but no, Tony, you didn't turn up because, and I quote, you couldn't be bothered.
Tony:That's correct. It's absolutely correct.
Andrew:Anyway, is the fire alright, Neil then?
Dave:The fire's lovely.
Matthew:Thank you. Fire's lovely. Thank you.
Andrew:You're welcome. I'm still breathing, there
Dave:you are.
Matthew:And why won't you leave the bed dragon meat, Andy?
Dave:Do look a bit There
Matthew:we go. We go.
Andrew:Was it in London?
Matthew:Yes. It's in that there London.
Andrew:Yeah. Can't be arsed in London.
Dave:No. It's fair enough. Fair enough. But, yeah, it was a it was a really good day. We had a good day and a half.
Matthew:But, Andy, you have been to Salute, haven't you?
Andrew:I've been up in Leicester and played it.
Dave:Not in Leicester.
Andrew:No. But I used to go to the old wargaming convention with you many years ago.
Matthew:Yeah. Yeah. Good.
Dave:Yeah. Oh, you're talking about Games Day. You mean back in the eighties?
Andrew:Back in the eighties. Yeah. And I did do a convention when I got my head got my ass handed to me when taking part in the competition.
Dave:Oh, okay.
Matthew:Now that's why you don't go to the convention, you don't like losing at competition.
Dave:You've just been embarrassed by your paltry performance. Yes. Good, I'm glad you're man enough
Matthew:Oh, for a a bit of the exciting news is if you go to UK Games Expo's website now, you can sign up as a GM at least to begin with for a fabulous scenario that Dave and I are writing. Haven't written yet. Haven't written yet. I've started. Yeah.
Matthew:I'm a paragraph in. Excellent. Only another 5,000 words to go.
Andrew:But I know.
Dave:But that's the thing. The tuning of the blank page is a thing. Yeah. Yes. And when you've no longer got a blank page For what game, though?
Dave:Alien Evolved.
Andrew:Alien Evolved.
Dave:So the new version of Alien.
Matthew:Yeah. All hands on deck is what the scenario is called.
Dave:It's the HMS Yamato. Each table will play a different group of people on that ship
Matthew:with a different specific mission. The whole thing's falling apart, we don't know why. Of course, we know why. It's called Alien Evolved. Clue's in the name.
Dave:So it's something evolved,
Tony:possibly it's an alien of
Dave:some kind.
Matthew:There may be an alien involved. Alien involved. But there's multiple crashes right across the system, so you've got to go and repair those crashes and try and save the ship before even starting to work out.
Tony:So would all the then be kind of playing in one like big beggar?
Matthew:Exactly. Yes. That sounds ambitious. Then after the first, I think it's kind of going to be two acts, but one act's gonna be a lot longer than the second act. And after the first act, a number of you will very likely be dead, so you've got to regroup
Dave:The survivors, and regroup into new groups for the finale.
Matthew:For the finale. So we've got
Dave:to keep But but but Can
Andrew:you backstab each other?
Matthew:Yep. I'm thinking that there will be personal and general
Dave:There will definitely be personal and general.
Matthew:Working towards a better technology.
Dave:But you will have a your team that you start in in the first act will be the team that you stay in all the way through. So you will you will earn points as you go through. And so if you if you were lucky enough to survive and get to the second act, any points you earn won't be for that new team you're in, it'll be for your original team to see who wins. So yeah, I think it's going to be very exciting. So It should be
Matthew:look at The UK Games web and we really cracked that idea, didn't we?
Dave:At at Dragon Meet.
Matthew:At Dragon Meet, yeah.
Dave:In the bar after the
Matthew:After the first.
Dave:Whilst you were trying to not fall asleep.
Andrew:Yeah. Really?
Matthew:I spent a lot of time not falling asleep.
Dave:Trying not to fall asleep. That is quite a lot of falling asleep. Falling asleep.
Tony:Variable success rate.
Dave:Yeah. Yeah. But that was good. Yeah. So that's probably that's probably it for Dragon Meat.
Matthew:I think it is. Yeah. So we want to talk a bit about the games you played here. Can I start off with my observation that I've shared with you guys already, but I just think it has to be said? A little anecdote about sitting we're sitting around a long lovely oak table that's kind of historical looking, and the GM sits at one end where we've got a light so they can read their notes.
Matthew:Yeah. The rest of us kinda sit in the gloom and sometimes
Dave:Have torches to try and
Andrew:see what's there.
Matthew:Yeah. But there is there's a chair over there, and the where you are sitting sitting.
Andrew:Yeah. The couch one.
Matthew:Doesn't seem to roll very well.
Andrew:Only if you Matt, I seem to be doing
Matthew:Oh you're doing okay,
Dave:you're okay in the end. Had a couple where
Andrew:you were Yeah, I was being shot, shot, shot, yes.
Matthew:So yesterday though you were running Savage Worlds of Solomon Cave first and I am an expert swordsman, it's my big thing.
Andrew:Yes. You're meant to be
Matthew:an people with the sharp thing. I'm an expert swordsman. Every other adventure we've played, I have skewered people.
Dave:You're slicing enemies.
Matthew:My only weakness is when they start shooting at us. Anybody comes up to me and
Andrew:Well, you do actually have an edge now, I think. Look at edges where because you're meant to be so dodgy and stuff like that, you get defense against people shooting you,
Matthew:I think. Oh, do I?
Andrew:Oh. Yeah. You have to look at them, aren't you?
Matthew:Oh, right.
Andrew:But nobody shot at you this time, so we yeah. Yeah.
Matthew:Which is just as well because my dice rolls were shite.
Tony:Mhmm. They were.
Dave:For hours. Hours. For hours. For a long time, you rolled a one and a four
Matthew:Yeah. On an
Dave:or a three even.
Matthew:So Savage World's people who don't know the Savage World system, you're rolling a stat or a Trait Dice as they call it, which is anywhere from a d4 to a d12 and a d6 which kind of balances out the fluffiness of those rolls. And you get kind of the objective is to get a four generally. Unless it's a difficult thing, one of the things that's difficult is when you're in a fight you have to instead of a four get the opponent's parry.
Andrew:Parry. Yes. Indeed.
Dave:Yeah. Which is usually harder
Matthew:than four. Which is sometimes only five.
Andrew:Yes. Indeed. And and
Dave:for these white blue things with the red eyes, it
Matthew:was Five. It was five.
Andrew:Yes. Yeah.
Matthew:And I rolled those two. I rolled a d 10, I think, and
Andrew:a d six
Matthew:in my in my pouncing.
Dave:Yeah. Probably 10 or 12 times.
Matthew:Mhmm. And only ever got ones, threes and fours on both of those.
Andrew:That is shit. Yes.
Dave:There was a moment where I think Matthew wasn't enjoying the game very much.
Matthew:But here's the thing. So, you know, we we tell people to enjoy failure. And I was having great fun at the beginning of this effectively saying
Andrew:I'm drunk.
Matthew:Oh, well, you know,
Dave:I Because because it was in the dark. This this thing was in the dark, and these things had basically come out of the walls. Yeah. Mhmm. And I'd seen them, and Tony had seen them, and we were we were fighting them, but you'd failed your notice roll to see them.
Dave:Anyway So whenever you kept missing, it was like, there's nothing here. I can't hit anything.
Matthew:Even though, obviously, I could have seen them then because I was, by this time, standing in Firelight and stuff like that. But
Dave:So I
Matthew:can see
Dave:one of them really
Matthew:I thought they would just
Andrew:play you role play the situation very well, Matt. You would yes. I gave you lots of beanies or bennies, what you wanna call it. Yeah. That's what
Matthew:it is. And and earlier on, you're right. There was another duel I tried to call out with Spaniard and luckily we were both whiffing
Dave:in that kicker.
Matthew:We were both drunk in a pub so again the story that I would think fitted well and I was enjoying the fact of the second fight that I you know, they were they were happily killing all these creatures around me, and I was denying their existence because I couldn't feel them. I couldn't even feel them with my sword. So they went there.
Dave:Here was me, the the the fat old churchman with his axe hacking through them like
Matthew:Yeah. Then but but but yes, you know, even though I was enjoying the story of the the failure, there was part of me that was getting more and more weary Disappointed. Just rolled in
Andrew:one set of wars. It does. It does. It does. That's true.
Andrew:Yeah. I think that some are all role playing games, any game system, even if you're like me, I'll be a wargamer. You can have I can even have the most amazing tactics or the most amazing figures on the table. But if your dice rolling that day, it shines
Tony:Dice involved. The dice.
Andrew:It's that's the end.
Dave:It can be very disappointing. Yes.
Tony:Yeah. Yeah. It's funny how you get those kind of streaks of You
Andrew:know, any game. Yeah.
Tony:Yeah. Bowling. It feels like it's connected. I think our intuition about the kind of randomness of dice, well, doesn't match reality. We kind of think randomness should even out over quite a short period, but it doesn't necessarily.
Tony:So you have those streaks, feels like the dice are maliciously betrayed. Yeah.
Dave:Yeah. It was like that time we were playing Coriolis at Paul's house and Morgan worked it out that he'd rolled 65 dice before he got a six. It's like it is he was getting a bit like you yesterday, was losing the will to live around the game and, like, not really enjoying it anymore. It's like, what's the point of rolling 10 dice? I'm not gonna get a dice against it.
Dave:Yeah.
Matthew:But Yeah. Yeah. I wanna contrast that with a thing that happened Today. Today, where we were playing the much vaunted, yeah, zero engine where you can roll a lot of dice and never get a six as you've just explained.
Dave:Tales of the Old West.
Matthew:And we have this marvelous thing in Tales of the Old West where you could do a kind of dual thing if if the moment is right. My wife was being threatened. I told the leader of the gang that was had a couple of members manhandling my wife to make them let Tell them
Dave:to stop, yeah.
Matthew:And I implied in the way I looked at him that if he did not tell them to stop, was going to shoot him, and that triggers a kind
Dave:of I think you told him that, actually. Yeah.
Matthew:Yeah. So then we did the shootout rules, the dueling rules as opposed to simple combat there.
Dave:Just to start the combat off.
Matthew:Yeah. And so you start off with a presence role where you try to stare each other out. And he, I've got a couple of successes there.
Dave:So did he. Yeah.
Matthew:And so did he, so we're pretty much there. We we both knew what was about to go down, and then
Dave:And we're both content with it kind of thing.
Matthew:The draw role happens.
Dave:Light fingered skill. Yeah.
Matthew:Light fingered skill, and this this is the beginning of my good fortune because It
Andrew:was. Yeah.
Matthew:I got four successes, which is great. Four successes restores your faith, Tony.
Andrew:That's not
Matthew:right. Roll it in.
Dave:Yeah. I know. We need to just talk about that, actually, but that's probably quite easy to sort out. Anyway,
Matthew:carry on. But also earns you an extra faith point, which is always good, or fee successes earns you an extra faith point if you don't need to have your faith restored. That's good.
Dave:He rolled no successes. He rolled no You plus four
Matthew:on that. So then I got plus four on my actual shooting roll.
Dave:Which gives you four extra dice because you're drawing your gun so much more quickly than he was.
Matthew:And at this point, I roll, I got a couple of successes, maybe one success, maybe two, I can't remember.
Dave:I think you got one initially, I don't think you even critted on the first one and then you re roll, you pushed.
Matthew:I think I may have got two successes and I thought I'd maybe just do an extra point of damage on him because I was thinking do I really want to kill this guy? But anyway, what did you
Dave:two guys say when they
Andrew:were killing You don't get any word killing.
Matthew:And then you reminded me of course that this all started because his goons were manhandling my wife.
Dave:Pregnant wife.
Matthew:My pregnant wife, yes. There's our new pregnancy rules coming into play in there.
Dave:Our new having sex rules. So this weekend has been a long sex
Matthew:problem for me.
Dave:Oh, poor Tony.
Andrew:Yeah. But we've
Dave:set you up.
Tony:Believe that were. Any pretend sex this weekend.
Dave:No. We've got spectaculars to come.
Matthew:I've lost my friend now. So anyway, you persuaded me to spend a point of faith and reroll my dice, and I I was rolling a lot of dice, so that was good. We rolled lots of dice, got no trouble, which was brilliant, ended up with six successes.
Andrew:Yes. And you shot him in the head.
Matthew:And by God, that felt good. So there's a point where the narrative, obviously, we're all playing games in the narrative's the thing, really. We accept the failure when we have jokes about not being able to see stuff
Dave:like that.
Matthew:But sometimes you get six fucking successes on the table Yeah. And that just makes you feel good. Whatever happens to the fucking story. The guy, of course, was shot straight through the head
Dave:and He died. Yeah. Died
Matthew:in a lovely clean shot.
Dave:I have
Andrew:to say, I do for my characters, protected in the camp campaign you're running. Like I said, he's come of age. He's actually now claimed this is his town. I am the sheriff of this town. Yeah.
Andrew:And this is
Dave:my town. That I like that. That that that
Matthew:and in fact, you've got so many successes that pretty much everybody in the town is now scared of you.
Dave:So there was the moment when Andy Scout, who's the sheriff, went back to the new house of the guy who'd been shot, who was a new guy coming to town, who was basically taking over the town. And obviously told them, but they they they hadn't heard. But then was very angry and made a couple of presence rolls in the town square in front of everybody, and Andy went red as a beetroot as a as, you know, as a player. And now I think anyone watching that, you know, all the town folk are a bit frightened of
Matthew:the sheikhism.
Dave:Are a bit frightened of him. So I think that is a really good move forward. The guy who actually originally employed you is now leaving the town, but you are kind of everyone knows you're the sheriff. Mhmm. And, you know, I mean
Andrew:I said I've come of age.
Dave:Yeah. My
Andrew:character is a sheriff. Yeah. I am. You know, if I said I know you don't like me using it, but to use the judge dread term, I am the law.
Dave:Yeah. Because judge dread hasn't been written
Andrew:yet. Yeah.
Dave:Sort of total bloody saying, is it?
Andrew:Yeah. I know. I know. But yeah.
Dave:You can say I am the law, but just stop saying
Andrew:it that judge dread No. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
Dave:No. That was great. I really, really enjoyed that. Yeah.
Andrew:It's a very good snarl.
Matthew:Yeah. But then what I wanted to say is sometimes you have, you know, we we have The dice. Great adventure. I've enjoyed every single one of the elders we've played, but this one just gave me that moment. Sometimes what you get on the dice is important.
Matthew:I want to deny it. I wanna say, it doesn't matter whether you pass away. It's all part of the story, but no. Sometimes Yeah. What you get on the dice is real.
Andrew:It is. Yeah. It is.
Dave:Yeah. I mean, occasionally, you have to have that that high of of a of a dice roll that is absolutely superb. But it's a bit like that it's like we talk about football. You know, as a football supporter, you go through weeks and weeks, months and months, years and years potentially of Well,
Matthew:you do because you support
Dave:West West Yeah. Well, that's true. Of drab, boring, fucking mundanity. But then actually,
Matthew:when you do
Dave:get those few moments of of success, it makes them that much more Better because
Tony:you've gone through all the crap.
Dave:All the crap in the first Having having the dice being cruel to you, all they're doing is being kind because what they're doing is building up that moment when you do that. When they do give you a good dice roll
Andrew:Enjoy it.
Dave:And you will enjoy it like Matthew did his shot today.
Andrew:Yeah. No. It's good. It's good. Even though the whole weekend I haven't actually shot anybody.
Dave:No, wouldn't have shot anybody in L5R, would you? No. Have you guns. Although, actually, there's
Matthew:a bit of a rule against guns, which we've talked to you about.
Dave:Well actually, in L5R, Andy's character is the one who looked lovingly at the Gaijin's guns when they were around. Was like, can I have one of those? Yeah. But, yes.
Andrew:No. I was the one
Dave:of those
Tony:in a fight with those guys, know, I was
Dave:very much expecting you to.
Andrew:Pick up a gun.
Tony:Well, no. No. Just to fight the fight the gun.
Dave:Because they were they were intruding on Rokogane lands. Of course,
Andrew:they were. Yeah.
Dave:And they were
Andrew:but we
Dave:let them off quite lightly, didn't we really?
Andrew:But when I talked to was it the bat the Batcrown? Can't remember who's gone. Oriyako. Oriyako. Oriyako.
Andrew:Yes.
Dave:But I was
Andrew:the one who actually came up with the strongest defense why you should actually tell them to go away. I could have said, yes. Let's go for it. Didn't I?
Matthew:Yes. You could have done. Yes. And and got some of that glorious guy Jim Pepper glory.
Dave:I mean, it was all going fine until Matthew's character said to me, I think we just killed them all.
Matthew:And that
Dave:and Yes. That's They all they
Tony:all used their
Dave:weapons at that point and got very upset.
Tony:Yeah. They all they spoke the language well enough to understand what
Andrew:he
Dave:was what what let's kill them. Yes. Yeah.
Matthew:But I think feel it worked out exactly the way I wanted it to work out. I wanted to threaten them without directly threatening them by talking
Dave:to you, so they knew. I then had to talk them down, put their weapons away. Were away in the first game so that
Matthew:was lovely. I really enjoyed that. That's the second no combat adventure we've had in a row.
Dave:In L5R, yeah. Feels. And they've both been great. In this game.
Matthew:Yeah. Where you're all playing Paladins, if you like. Paladins Paladins, if you want to pronounce it now.
Andrew:I don't know. But you see the sign but the snoring one we did was at the cursed pit.
Matthew:The fest festering pit.
Dave:The festering
Andrew:pit when I went around punching holes in brick walls with my fists. I enjoyed that as well. And I haven't done that for two snowy.
Dave:Yeah. Yeah. Enjoyed that too. But actually, it's nice to mix it up a little bit. Yeah.
Dave:Yeah.
Andrew:Yeah. Is. But it's
Dave:And I think with I find with with running Toto for you guys is the the stories, you usually have a lot of talking in them.
Andrew:Yes. Yeah.
Dave:And that's good. I love that. I love that. But I also because we only play it, you know, two times every three years or three times every two years, whatever it might be. I kind of feel like it's nice to offer the opportunity for a bit of action.
Andrew:Yes. Yeah.
Dave:Of course. And on this one, I mean, you were you were facing down the bad guy and it was a standoff, it wasn't about to turn violent, and now I thought, you know, what what can I do to to push them over the edge? And I thought, manhandling Matt's wife. That ought to work. That ought to ought do it.
Dave:Might play a character's wife. So we beat Sue up. She's in the next room. Absolutely. Yeah.
Dave:And that had the had the effect that I I wanted because Matt immediately said, I'm shooting Hoffman.
Andrew:But your friend just shoot him. He told didn't shoot him straight away.
Dave:Oh, yeah. He did say Well, I did
Matthew:give him
Dave:he said
Matthew:very strong message.
Dave:Your all your men to let it go or I'm gonna shoot you. Yeah. And he went, nah.
Andrew:Nah. Yeah.
Dave:So no, that was good. It was good. I liked I liked it. It worked narratively, it worked really well because right before that, there there was a there was a there's a territorial assessor who is kind of like the the epicenter of all of this this scenario. And Matt had said, oh god.
Dave:I wish he would just run away and hide somewhere. I thought, okay. Well, Grunia, his wife, can run off expecting that and go and tell him to hide and then get caught. And it worked perfectly, and it led to the the the confrontation I I thought the scenario needed just to finish it off.
Andrew:To finish it off. Yes. Yeah. Although you have a bounty hunter who's gone away to stir the shit, isn't he?
Dave:Well well, maybe, but he's a he's a honorable man, Casper Cronenhall. I so I I I used a character from the Las Vegas legacy. So if he's dead in the Las
Matthew:Vegas Available on drive thru RPG, a very cheap price. It's a
Dave:good it's a very good story. But, yeah, he might die in that story in someone's campaign, so he wouldn't turn up in this one. But I thought, you know, he is he's not an evil man. He's just a tough man who does a a difficult job. And he's not doing harm to people because he he loves it or he wants to.
Dave:It's it's just a job, and he tries to
Andrew:do it the best way possible. To me, may have to report what yeah.
Tony:Which is
Dave:why yeah. He's gonna report that up the chain. Mhmm. But he wasn't gonna get into a gunfight over Hoffman He
Matthew:was very manhandling your called him a gunfighter, wasn't he?
Dave:Yeah. He's well, and and he pointed out that you're a gunfighter, and everybody around the you know, in that thing was a gunfighter.
Matthew:And
Dave:And then he proved it. I a gunfighter? Well, when you get four successes on your light fingered role, which is pretty unlikely, frankly, but yeah. Your reputation is such that you might not be able to meet it in future.
Matthew:Yeah. Or somebody will shoot me in the back anyway and I won't have the chance.
Dave:That's quite possible. That is kind of like the standard thing that happened in the West. But yeah, so other reflections on this weekend's games, guys?
Tony:Just to go back to what we're saying about Legend of the Five Rings, the fact you've had a couple of sessions without combat. It's kind of slightly deliberate on my part now. There will be combat, but kind of deliberately try not to make it the focus too much because now your characters Change the pace a bit. And plus your characters now are quite powerful characters.
Andrew:Been around
Tony:for quite
Andrew:a while,
Tony:so you do a lot of damage. So to give you an opponent that is a challenge, basically it means you have to have someone with a lot of hit points or a lot of life, and it does make the combat slightly attritional. Yeah. If you're just basically wearing down Yeah.
Dave:Yeah. Hit points.
Tony:Because otherwise, I have given the opponents I thought would be hard for you. You've just kind of wiped out in a couple of hits.
Dave:Yeah. I remember that was that the first one in the festering pit where they came climbing up the plateau we were on. And I was worried in that fight when that fight started, but we actually did manage to win it quite easily. I think after that you said, I thought that was gonna be a much tougher fight. Yeah.
Dave:And we just cut But the
Tony:way it's to give you harder points is that you don't just kill really quickly, just to just give them more hit points. Yeah. Which means it does kind of make it long, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but I don't wanna make it Every time. Happens Yeah.
Andrew:All the time.
Tony:All the time. It's something that
Andrew:And also, that sounds a bit like D and D because that's one thing I really don't like doing about D and Yeah.
Dave:I agree.
Andrew:Just trying to get. It's like, oh, I can take a shot from the head from a magnum 44 and walk away and not worry about it. Thinking, maybe not.
Tony:Yeah. I was expecting you to get into a fight with the guys that you met in the cave.
Andrew:That's one thing I worry about.
Tony:Without fighting them.
Dave:Yeah.
Andrew:That's thing I worry because I don't like RPG games, which is just combat all the time. And I do worry about someone came because that's combat. And I do think, no. I don't want to I try to do work my best when writing the game, not do combat.
Dave:No. I think that's fine there because because I mean, I was thinking about it earlier, and and, yes, there was a lot of combat in yesterday's game Mhmm. Solomon Kane. But you pushed it. But, actually, there was quite a lot of thinking
Andrew:and Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll be
Dave:in the end. You and investigating as well.
Andrew:But it wasn't the whole day of combat.
Dave:No. Exactly.
Andrew:Know? Yeah. That's what I don't want. I don't want the whole whole scenario where you're just running around from one room. One room.
Andrew:It seems something or the other.
Dave:And I've had that sense with No. Without with Soul of McCain at all. You know, I've I've not there have been games that I've played, I mean, particularly in in recent times, Cyberpunk Red, where, you know, I could take a machine gun and gun someone down at five feet away. And if I did that 10 times, I might kill them. And similarly with Rune Quest, again, a game was just all about combat and the combat seems to take forever.
Tony:And
Dave:it just doesn't give you any space for more interesting stuff. And I love a good bit of combat. Who doesn't?
Tony:I mean, I enjoyed that. I also played in this Cyberpunk and I really enjoyed things. But you're right, it is just combat sometimes, actually as a change of pace. Guess it can But you enjoyed that, it was a bit different from the other games that we I
Dave:guess maybe I just find that a bit less attractive as a role playing game than even as a break from a different style. Yeah. I just didn't I didn't really enjoy those very much.
Andrew:And either.
Dave:Because it's just because I I love the games where combat is quick and dirty. Yeah. You know? And even even in in Solomon Kane where the combats can take a bit longer.
Andrew:Mhmm. Well, we've to figure it out.
Dave:We we were still working out well, okay. Well, let's not we're talking about it. Let's not go. I'm you how long we want this podcast to be. Yeah.
Dave:Could be here for another three hours.
Andrew:Oh, let's
Dave:go. Yesterday trying to work out the rules of Solomon Kane. Anyway. But in those combats, there were a lot of enemies, but you could put them down
Tony:quite quickly.
Dave:Quite quickly. So it wasn't like there was just one big enemy that you just had to hit five hit points, hit 10 hit points, hit how many do we need? Oh, a 120.
Andrew:No. No. No. At least with Solomon Kane, you do if if they're plebs, it's just you score now, and they're gone.
Dave:But they're also dangerous, though.
Andrew:Yeah. Yeah. They are dangerous.
Dave:Yeah. Because in that, I mean, in that very first round, Matthew was put down to took three wounds
Andrew:in his
Dave:first attack. And even though their chances of hitting were quite low
Tony:Quite low.
Dave:I mean, for me, it was one in six
Tony:Yes. Okay.
Dave:Chance to hit. But if they hit, chances are they were gonna do me quite a lot of damage.
Matthew:It's a
Tony:quite lot damage, which then reduces your ability to hit the attack.
Dave:Exactly. Yeah. It makes it much harder. And that that gave a palpable sense of threat or or fear that one bad die roll and I'm in deep trouble.
Andrew:Yes. Yeah.
Dave:Even though it didn't happen, I mean, I think it hit a couple of times, but they didn't score enough damage. Yeah. But again, a couple of exploding dice on a damage roll. Oh, yeah. I'm and I'm down to three three wounds like Matthew, you know, I'm not gonna hit anything.
Dave:So it's got that palpable sense of threat, which is really cool. Now I found with particularly on the cyberpunk with my character, tried really hard to find a way of putting enemies out in one go. So I was like some kung fu judo master, so I was always trying to find an alleged to throw them off. And even then They came back. Well yeah exactly, even then they've criss rolled the damage properly, they're gonna get up and come back upstairs shooting.
Dave:I was both surprised and disappointed, cause I played a lot of Cyberpunk twenty twenty back in the day, and the rules are very similar, and I don't remember feeling it was like that then, but maybe then I didn't know any better, cause that was still quite early on in my role playing career and the games that you played were like D and D and stuff, they
Andrew:were But like
Dave:I was really looking forward to it and then I just found it quite disappointed me.
Andrew:No, that's great. Yeah.
Dave:So anything else from the weekend that strikes you?
Andrew:Well, I suppose we still have to play spectaculars.
Dave:We've got that left, yep.
Tony:I'll talk about Matthew's excellent dice roll in total. I had kind of the inverse of that, because we had that scene where we were trying to rescue some people from the river.
Andrew:Oh yes, yeah,
Tony:From horseback, and had to make some trying to lasso them and making some animal handling rolls, which I'm very good at, And I kind of rolled a lot of dice, had no successes, pushed again, had a lot rolled again a lot of dice and no successes. I kind of rolled probably nearly 20 dices with no successes.
Dave:You've got no success.
Tony:But the outcome of that scene was very sad. That's something with the dice I had, should definitely have succeeded on. But the dice again betrayed me. Basically the reverse of Matthew seven, which is kind of sad, although it made in ball playing terms.
Andrew:Yes. Yeah. More realistic. Yeah. It's quite a
Dave:A sad movie. The outcome is quite an emotional
Tony:Yeah. Kind of outcome.
Andrew:It did.
Tony:Yeah. Affects the narrative. Those dice rolls can change the narrative.
Dave:Mhmm. Yeah. And changes the story as well, because now as a result of that, your reputation, your place in that community, in that town is very different from what it was before that flood came through.
Tony:So even though that was like a negative result, involving terms, it was quite
Andrew:Yes, yeah, yeah, it was. So
Dave:did you want to talk about the three hours of dueling rule books for No.
Andrew:Not real. I think we'll give them a mess somehow. Yeah.
Matthew:So we we ought to explain that we're gonna talk about a couple of games that you'll never hear on our live podcast. And what? There's two reasons why you've not heard these on our live podcast. The first is we haven't done many edits of live shows, of live games, pretty much since we've succeeded the Kickstarter because we've been too damn busy in our spare time with with actually getting the book out and doing the next thing. And also I've had a full time job and now Dane's gone back into full time work so have not had any time to edit these things.
Matthew:There will be some coming out. We record Spectaculars which is what we're going be playing after we recorded this and Tales of the Old West of course and they're coming out. We don't record Legend of the Five Rings because we're a bit worried about its stereotypical nature its orientalism culture. So although we enjoy the game, it's not one we particularly want to share online, and there are many reasons why we
Dave:What?
Andrew:What? Reasons I can't I don't understand, mate. You've got to explain me. What's wrong with you?
Matthew:Solomon Kane, of course, was very much a set of short stories of their time.
Andrew:Written by Robert Lee Howard.
Matthew:Written by Robert Lee Howard Lee Howard Lee Lee. Anyway, by the bloke who did Conan, but in the real world, not the fantasy world. Well it's got demons and stuff like that, and so that has many representations of other cultures that are kind of stereotyped as opposed to considered, and yes, yes, I will have a beer, thank you Dave. So again, we're not showing that.
Dave:Yeah, plus the
Matthew:two of the
Tony:characters in that game are of a nature that possibly
Matthew:Yeah. We don't want to talk about that either.
Dave:I think
Tony:we're talking about that.
Andrew:Well, you've mentioned father Bellows in
Matthew:In Puget. Yeah. Well, I might be
Dave:able to
Matthew:take a lot of those references.
Dave:It's definitely adult content, that's for sure.
Matthew:But, yes, so, Solomon Kane, I think, is a problematic work. It's just come out in a new edition, and I know one of our patrons, Thomas, has bought it and has found that they haven't, for me, changed some of the things that I would have changed about it, which means again I don't think it's a particularly good game to share online, although it's
Dave:What's that Solomon Kane you're talking about? What you don't think is a good game
Matthew:to Well, share a start, the fact that Solomon Kane is a redemption arc story, but there's no way of effectively buying off your hindrances.
Dave:No, there isn't. Okay. Plus I quite like my
Matthew:I know, well, yeah.
Tony:Yeah, it's one of the reasons why we can't really complain.
Matthew:Plus you, well, you know, there are other problems as well, like you earn earn pennies by paying off your indiscences and you can pay off your hindrance very amusically in the 1970s sort of way and earn Bettis and I can play mine off in a slightly less comfortable but
Dave:97. He's kind
Tony:of quite like he's 87.
Dave:Yeah. Whereas Tony, though, his hindrances don't help at all.
Matthew:Your hindrances that you got initially were
Dave:Quite horrible.
Matthew:Scarily spy just you've
Andrew:gone no. You see, if you'd gone down actually, I should have done because actually, when you came up for the church, there would have been a lot of spider webs. I forgot about that. But but by that time, since you've gone the other way around, I'd forgotten about the spider webs.
Matthew:So there's that rule there, but I'm talking about my particularly my and I quote here, air quotes, jingoistic which is your nation is better than everybody else's that I think tends in this
Dave:world Draw inferences for yourselves listeners,
Matthew:which I think I might have changed for a second edition, that's all I'm saying.
Andrew:And
Matthew:it's one of the reasons why we don't share that online, although as kids of the 70s we do laugh a lot.
Dave:For anyone, that's just for us. It's just for us.
Matthew:Actually I'm just looking at the time, it's fifty six minutes into recording. I'm thinking of not doing any editing here. Listeners who were here at the beginning of the episode
Dave:will be
Matthew:relieved to see that Andy is still here, so we
Andrew:haven't had to him out of
Matthew:the game. Although there's still a few minutes maybe before But the
Dave:fire is going nicely now so he doesn't need to suck in smoke anymore, so that's fine.
Matthew:So we haven't even had to edit Andy's death out. What do we want to say? We're having more patrons next time. We
Dave:are, we are.
Matthew:So we are going to be meeting online in that circumstance with some of our patrons from around the world.
Dave:For a review of the year.
Matthew:After Christmas.
Dave:For a
Matthew:review of the year that will come out soon after that. We manage it.
Dave:Couple of weeks time.
Matthew:Yeah. So that's our next episode.
Dave:It is.
Matthew:Is there anything else we want to say?
Dave:I don't think so. I think that's probably enough for one day. So
Matthew:Shall we get our guests? I think
Dave:I think we should. But, yeah, so signing off from the the old farmhouse here in the middle of nowhere.
Matthew:Yeah. In the middle of nowhere. So goodbye from me. And it's goodbye from him.
Tony:And the icons bless your
Dave:adventures.