2024, we were in you
Hello, and welcome to episode 248 of effect. 2024, we were in you. And, my name is Matthew.
Dave:Yeah. I'm I'm Dave. That wasn't the title that I suggested.
Matthew:No. It wasn't the new.
Dave:It's it's That was frankly disgusting version of the title.
Matthew:Yeah. That was right.
Dave:Was that we we knew you. You know, I mean, we're not drunk enough. It's only it's 8 o'clock on a Thursday night, guys. I mean, it's not like it's party time or anything.
Matthew:But It's
Dave:what have
Matthew:we got on, Dave?
Dave:On the show, Dave.
Matthew:To say.
Dave:I know. I know. I'm getting there. And and as as our as our as our show notes said, we have lots of chat. So today is, it's gonna be a, a little review, an opportunity now that it's now 2025 and we're in the new year for, some of our wonderful patrons and friends to join the show, and they're currently sitting there with with all their mics carefully mic'd off.
Dave:And we're gonna talk a little bit about, some of our favorite things. We're gonna talk a bit about, you know, the weirdest or most interesting news and and gaming of 2024. Then we'll look forward a bit. What's the most exciting release maybe in 2025? And then we're thinking about well, there was one answer to that, which clearly people will get kicked very quickly if they don't they don't ask that first.
Dave:And then and then we thought, well, where does the year zero engine go from here? We are a podcast that was started from, you know, the the free league and the year zero engine. So I guess it doesn't hurt to just ask the question, where does it go from here? But this is this is a reasonably freewheeling, convention of folks. So we don't run a stick religiously to any of that.
Dave:So if anyone's got something really exciting to add them, then they should. But, without any further ado, let's let's No.
Matthew:No. Let's not do that. Let's have some further ado, Dave. Go on. Further ado.
Matthew:We should quickly give a brief old west news.
Dave:Okay. Yeah. We could do that. Go on then.
Matthew:Because something very exciting happened over the last couple of days or in fact on the very last day of the year, last year, what happened Dave?
Dave:Well, we we got our beta version of the full layout. So the full as it turns out, 290 something pages of the of the book. It might even be a bit more than that because I don't think we've got Yeah.
Matthew:Because it turns out not to be the full ones. The the the life path tables aren't
Dave:yet in place. No. No. But anyway, so we got that, and, I've had a good chance to start looking at it today, in fact. So I'm about about a quarter of the way through.
Dave:I know you've got further than I have, Matthew, but this is very exciting because I hadn't expected to get this quite this quickly. Stefan has obviously been working very hard over the last, few weeks to get it into this place, and it's looking pretty good actually. In in many many parts of it, it's looking great. There are certainly things to brush up and there are things we're gonna talk about that will get, get amended. But actually, as a as a baseline, it's looking pretty damned good.
Matthew:It is. It is. So far, we have only, a 114 issues, with it, which now I say, sounds like quite a lot. But Well,
Dave:actually, a lot of those are typos. It's more like proofreading because I've been proofreading it a bit as I've gone. Not not properly, but, try to do a little bit. So there's quite a lot in there that I've noted, which is simply typos or there's a space in the wrong place or there's a line missing.
Matthew:Yeah. And I think with you that I've noticed, which stuns me, but there you go.
Dave:This is my un well, I I just wonder. Yeah. Yeah.
Matthew:Yeah. You you can think of that. You can take it as read that I wasn't looking for typos because if I was, I wouldn't have seen them. I did spot a few because I wasn't looking for them, but, but I was just looking at the general composition and things like that for that most of my stuff. Anyway, that's the news.
Matthew:Just I think to keep people informed, it's useful for them to do that sort of stuff. Shall we introduce the gang or get the gang to introduce themselves?
Dave:Introduce themselves. Yeah. Absolutely.
Matthew:Okay. So, I am going to mute you unmute you one at a time in the order that I see you on the screen announcing who you are, and then I want you to say who you are and what the most fun ex gaming experience, I hasten to add, the most fun gaming experience that you had in 2024. So we're gonna start off, first of all, we
Dave:We're we're we're gonna limit you to a minute.
Matthew:A minute each? Yeah. Otherwise, the whole the whole thing would have gone. So you don't have to be
Dave:as Lucretius as Matthew and I am. So you have to be concise and good podcasting.
Matthew:Yeah. Don't take us.
Dave:Unlike us.
Matthew:Do what we do what we say, not what we do. Do what we don't say because, yeah. No. I'll I'll show up now.
Dave:Let's get on with it, shall we?
Matthew:So I'm gonna go, first of all, to you, Paul.
Paul V:Hello. I'm Paul.
Paul V:I'm a patron, and my most exciting fun bit, of the year was in a one ring game run by another patron called John. John. It was the time where we reenacted the ancient Khazad dum, kingdom of Durin. Oh. And that was just so much fun, really.
Paul V:Matthew also played and as well as well as some other patrons on this call, but, yes, that was my most fun
Dave:That was at
Paul V:the first session.
Matthew:We didn't even have character sheets, did we? We didn't have
Paul V:character sheets. We just we just basically just, very few roles. I think we had 2 roles in the whole of that particular session. It was
Dave:just Yeah. It involved being chased across the bridge by the Balrog then?
Paul V:No. It was it involved killing the Balrog in the end, but,
Dave:Okay.
Pete:Yeah.
Paul V:It was good. Yeah. It was great.
Matthew:So we have changed all of Lord of the Rings history now.
Dave:I was gonna say, and it is
Matthew:now very different experience. Okay. Next in my line is Pete.
Pete:Hi, I'm Pete. My favorite experience this year was probably playtesting carried on playtesting Tales of the Old West.
Matthew:Woo hoo.
Dave:Man, good boy.
Pete:I thought I'd get the shout in early. You know? I'm playing in the game run by Tony, Dave's brother, and I'm just having so much fun being a git.
Dave:Well, it is a good it is a great campaign, isn't it? And we're not It's fantastic. Nasty people.
Pete:Oh, we're we're all just evil. It's brilliant.
Matthew:Yeah. And then I'm coming across to Andy.
Andy:Hi. I'm Andy. And my most enjoyable experience this year is almost almost 2023, but it was just into 24, was I ran a World War 2 Cthulhu scenario and drew some, a map of the sort of area where the players were going. And I drew, a campsite for some Germans and, you know, put it on the table. And my stepson took one look at it and went, ah, And at that point, I couldn't take it seriously anymore.
Andy:So, but, yeah, apart from that, no. This year, I haven't done that much gaming, but I'm hoping to run Solon Vale and Selwyn Junior in the New Year.
Matthew:Well And
Matthew:was that World War 2 Cthulhu scenario actual Achtung Cthulhu? Do I happen to know your wife wants to play?
Andy:Yes. She does. But, no. We we did a a straight Cthulhu in World War 2 because I don't actually own Acton properly yet. But, yeah, anyway, yeah, she does want to run it.
Andy:One of the players, my stepson's other half, she turned up dressed appropriately for the 19 forties, which was quite cool. Excellent.
Dave:As a not as a Nazi?
Andy:No. As a, you know the poster of the woman who's doing keep the home front thing with the head tilt
Matthew:and all that?
Andy:Yeah. I like that.
Matthew:Rosie the Riveter, I think her name is.
Andy:That's the one. Yep.
Matthew:So yeah. And, and Frank, what was your, experience? Fun experience. Fun gaming experience.
Frank:Well, fun gaming. Can I have 2?
Matthew:Well, if you can fit them in, you can Yes.
Frank:1 as a player, 1 as a GM. First of all, I'm Frank on the Inter tubes. You might know that one. So as a player, actually, without actually sucking up to anybody, Tales of the Old West was really, really good when we played our one shot. We had this huge, shoot out outside the saloon at the end, where everybody was turning on HR.
Frank:That was really, really good fun. Bruce was just shaking his head. He run the
Matthew:This was the Las Vegas, oh, what's it called? Las Vegas treasure? Legacy. That was a
Dave:Las Vegas legacy.
Frank:Yeah. I can't remember what it was called. And as a as a GM, we had a I think it was last year. A really, really, farcical thing basically going on on our common campaign in the little bit that I put in as our own as my own home brew into the big campaign where they were just trying to to solve some riddles and so on. But at one point, there was a big hole in the ground.
Frank:They were trying to upsell down there, and they ended up basically all falling into there with complications. And it was so comedic in a way. It was a really good moment to run that.
Dave:So there you go. Excellent.
Matthew:Cool. Bruce, you're muted. I'll say this, and I can't unmute you.
Bruce:Well, I'll I'll mute myself. I'm Bruce. I'm a patron as well. Favorite one I have. Certainly enjoyed running deals a little west at conventions.
Matthew:So
Bruce:I'm getting good positive feedback. But I'm gonna upset you. I think from the convention running, I'm gonna pick Blade Runner, because it's the way the players have been tackling, one venture that I've been running and pushing challenges on me coming up with ideas I hadn't thought of versus, trying to find the clues to get to the next scene, and that's been quite good good to see you seen as well.
Matthew:And is that an adventure of your own creation there?
Bruce:Yes. It's my own case file. Yep. Cool.
Matthew:K. Right. And then, again, Paul, I can't unmute you because you muted yourself.
Paul W:And that's probably what my wife would prefer. Paul Watson, yeah, my my big thing for this year, my best game experience for this year was after about 4 or 5 years, we finally came to the end of our mutant year 0. We've we found out the big secret. Peter has been our GM, long standing GM, Bruce And
Matthew:not the Pete earlier on in this
Paul W:No. Not that Pete. No. Pete Pete Peter Barusa, he's one he's a a member of, the clan. And, we we are now looking to take on Ad Astra, which should be fun.
Paul W:Oh. Cool. And, I haven't played Tales of the Old West, but I thought I better mention it just in case I get banned.
Matthew:No. That's a good idea. I recommend that to everybody. That
Dave:that there's been no there's been no pre kind of, like, you know, setting up people coming onto the show today to say Tales of the Old West is great. No pressure. We're not staring down the camera, giving you evil eye or anything. You know, no threats.
Paul W:Well well, I should say that a Scottish person and a German person are gonna get a little package from me soon, which is the, alpha version of the foundry tells of the old west system.
Matthew:Oh, that's exciting.
Paul W:Yeah. Andy Andy should put us up a sign saying, where's my check? I'm not getting my mate.
Matthew:And then, coming across to Jed. How are you, Jed? I'm doing well.
Jed:This is Jed from New Jersey. And, yeah. So I'll do 2. One that's Tales of the Old West and one that's not. The one that's not is I ran Delta Green, but adapted the In Darkness We Wait, Cthulhu scenario.
Jed:And it worked out very well for sort of a X Files meets slow horses kind of, shenanigans
Paul W:Cool.
Jed:For my group. Really caught them off guard because they went in with completely different expectations. And then yeah. So for Tales of the Old West, our village opened up a board game cafe, and so I started running, Tales of the Old West playtest. But before I started running it, I ran a session of, several sessions of microscope to define the town and the region around it, which worked out extraordinarily well.
Jed:And, there were it's been going on longer than I expected. I figured it was like a 3 session thing, but, they wanna keep going. So it's cool. Very compelling.
Matthew:The only problem here is everybody's gonna be enjoying, microscope, and when they'll say, oh, no. We don't wanna play your Tales of the Old West.
Jed:No. No. Now we're into it. Yep. We're
Matthew:Oh, okay. Good. Good. Good. Good.
Matthew:Good. Good. We've lost somebody.
Dave:But I at the moment, but,
Matthew:Yeah. I'm sure he'll be back. And Douglas, last but not least.
Douglas:Am I last?
Matthew:Yeah. I think so.
Douglas:Wow. Oh my gosh. That went fast. I'm Douglas. I'm reluctant artsy, and I, forget the question.
Douglas:No. It was, Tales of the Old West.
Matthew:Woo hoo.
Douglas:But I'm not gonna repeat that because I I it was exactly the same scene that, Frank identified. It was that
Dave:shoot out
Douglas:the whole the I am the naysayer of the group who's like, I'm not really into westerns. And I I really was surprised at how much fun. So I'm gonna say outgunned. I was really surprised because I hadn't played outgunned. I had played household.
Douglas:Outgunned, I played, at the end of the year with the same GM, with Bruce, and it was amazing. I was really, I was really overwhelmed with how good it was. So, Outgun, certainly lived up to the expectations that people had been building in a a path.
Matthew:Excellent. And Dave Dave, of course, I said that Doug was last, but whenever I think of the least, I think of you, Dave. So what was your most fun experience?
Dave:You'll be last now, so that'll be the least, which is fine. Well, yeah. I mean, okay. In quick succession, creating effect publishing, the total Kickstarter, the any win for Building Better Worlds. Those those are massive, massive great These
Matthew:aren't highlights. Most fun, Dave. Not boring stuff like
Dave:These were quite fun for me. So the thing that surprised me then as as fun and I it probably shouldn't have surprised me, but I I love Spectaculars. Yeah. I thought I was gonna enjoy it, but I didn't think I'd enjoy it quite as much as I did and have been. And I particularly loved the the the kind of the procedural way that you generate the world as a group.
Dave:And some of the ideas we had there, I thought, were just fabulous. And I love the idea of of the the setting we've created. And I kind of quite like to write a novel about it actually because I think it's a fabulous setting or even really do a cartoon comic for it. So I think that would be my surprise, at how much I've enjoyed Spectaculars. It's great.
Dave:We played it twice now, and it's, yeah. Brilliant. Loving it. And you, Matthew, last last and most certainly least, what was yours?
Matthew:Well, I I can, I'm gonna give a shout out to a game that lots of the group here oh, not lots of the group, but members of this group here have played run by Thomas who was hoping to join us, but I think he's, otherwise engaged, all the way from Australia, and that is Cthulhu played with the Western rules and particularly Chris Spivey's campaign, Harlem Unbound. Although we went off a bit, and the last adventure was a non Chris by the adventure. But it it it was so thematically correct. It was brilliant. And in that, Douglas, Douglas's character sacrificed himself, and it was all suitably.
Matthew:So that was, I think, some of my most fun gaming experiences. Although
Douglas:My character did kill some children, though. So
Matthew:You did kill you did kill children. You yeah. You were
Bruce:sacrificing stuff.
Matthew:So it's
Dave:less it's it's less heroic than you might have made it sound then.
Matthew:They they were pretty infested, actually. I'd run away, so I wasn't there to make a decision about the children. But, I think although it was very much the wrong thing to do, it was also in the world of, Cthulhu, probably the right thing to do. So so well done, Douglas.
Dave:Let's all congratulate Douglas on murdering children. Yeah. This is just what I want in this podcast. Yeah. No.
Dave:Perhaps not. Perhaps not. But, cool. So the other thing that surprised me actually that I've I I I enjoyed very, very much, and there's no good reason why I shouldn't have done, was Blade Runner. And it took me a long time to get around to playing it.
Dave:Took couple of years, frankly, since you got the books. And we still haven't finished the the the the case file that Tony's running for us. But it's brilliant. I'm absolutely loving it. And it's something I might come back to later if we're talking a bit about the years are ending and the 2 dice, you know, mechanic rather than the dice Cool.
Dave:Cool.
Matthew:Well, let's come back to it later because
Andy:Yeah.
Matthew:That's your second dip, and I'm pretty sure you were over a minute to begin with. And we did limit everybody to a minute, and that includes the hosts except for the timekeeping host, who is me. Shall we move on to our first, discussion topic, which I've forgotten?
Dave:I think that was our
Matthew:the intro, Dave. Remind me.
Dave:The most yeah. The weirdest, the most interesting news or game of the of 2024.
Matthew:Right. Shall we go in reverse order, but the new reverse order, which starts with Pete?
Pete:Yeah. Most interesting. Well, the one I find most interesting is, this, my father's sword. I got it through the post the other day.
Matthew:Oh. Okay. Cool.
Pete:I haven't played anything yet. I
Dave:really wanna get the
Pete:game going.
Dave:I really can't escape going for now for now when you hear that. Sorry, folks. It just had to had to be done. Anyway, carry on, mate. Sorry.
Andy:But, yeah, I I'd I'd love
Pete:to get I'd love to get a game in this year. I just I love I love the idea the idea of the mechanics, and I actually backed it off of, off the back of your podcast with the with the interview you did.
Matthew:Oh, we're
Andy:getting through
Dave:to see.
Pete:That that that's the most interesting game of 2024.
Matthew:Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Gaming news, back to you, Douglas.
Douglas:I play, I play tested, my father's sword, and so that was awesome. The most interesting weirdest news, I think for me, it's it's, coming up in 2025, but it was announced in 2024, the narrative dice. And the inclusion in narrative dice in games like, Dagger Heart, which is Critical Rules thing and, the Cosmere role playing game. And so instead of just, black and white, you hit, you fail. We're going back or forward, toward a powered by the apocalypse kind of, levels of success, levels of failure, and utilizing a dice.
Douglas:I think that's I'm not sure how I feel about that yet, but it's certainly there and it it's in big companies with big backing and stuff like that. So
Paul W:Cool.
Matthew:And so just just to fill this in for me, these are dice with words on, like succeed and fail. No? No. No?
Douglas:No. It's it's more along the lines in Cosmere. What they have is they have a d 6. You have a a couple of dice which are going to add either a modifier of 2 or a modifier of 4, and then you have, so these are narrative that almost like a push mechanic, but a dramatic scene. So it's very narrative, and what you're doing is you're, you're pushing the scene to, levels of success or failure adding to it or taking away from it, depending on the circumstance.
Douglas:So it's just, but doing it with a dice. So it's
Matthew:So these are are these like Star Wars dice, Or should I say, Genesis dice?
Frank:You
Douglas:let Paul let Paul jump in.
Matthew:Paul, jump in. Other Paul.
Paul V:The the the the idea behind the dice is similar to what they did with the, Star Wars, dice. It's like another axi of, of success and failure. So it's not just get success and failure. You get, like, partial you get, like, so the the idea of the dice is the the additional narrative dice is, it has on each of the 6 faces, you've got a a my a plus 4, setback, plus 2 setback, and then 2 dice with 222 sides with nothing on it, and then 2 being a, sort of like a marginal success sort of thing. So the idea being is you can still fail the dice, your your it's the actual check, but you get sort of like a a side advantage.
Paul V:So, like, the idea of you miss the guy but you destroy his cover or you hit but you run out of bullets or something along those lines basically. So the the general idea of it is that even if you get a setback, because you get plus 4, you're more likely to succeed the skill role. So or if you get a plus 2, you're more likely to succeed to get the target number on the main dice, basically, is the idea.
Douglas:Okay. Plot dice.
Matthew:Plot dice. Plot dice. And, Paul, what's your bit of interesting news? Same Paul this time or weird news.
Paul V:Weird news. I I think it was a gaming company sending Pinkertons around to a gamer to beat him up, cajole him, and, steal property his own property off him. I think that's
Matthew:Yes.
Paul V:The weirdest thing that I've ever heard is never expected to happen, basically, you know, in in in our industry. And the viral
Matthew:In a year of weird shit happening in 2024, that was one of the weirdest things. Shall we mention the game company, or are they gonna Yeah. Change around?
Paul V:Wizard of the coast. Well, they might send the Pinkertons round against us again, but, you know, illegally.
Matthew:And this was because he had,
Paul V:He'd he'd he'd basically received the the distributors sent out a box of Magic the Gathering cars by accident basically, to him. So it was their fault, but as far as he he'd actually pre ordered and paid for them, so they were his property. So and then when the Pinkertons went around, they actually Pinkertons stole his property, basically, after basically saying that he was gonna get, thrown in prison.
Douglas:Yeah. I must add that also YouTube received a copy of I think it was the Dungeon Master Master's Guide or the Player Player's Handbook in advance, with perm with permission to show it, and then received a strike, not from YouTube, but from them, from Wizards of the Coast. And so, there's a lot of kind of muddying going along from this company. So but Yeah.
Matthew:Andy, you, of course, Andy, B, you, of course, mentioned that there have been raids before, but it was the other way around. It was a games company getting raided before. Do you wanna say a bit more?
Andy:That's Steve Jackson Games back in the nineties when they did scurrp Cyberpunk. And, someone suggested to the feds that it was a handbook for hacking. And as a result, the, I think it was the FBI broke into the Steve Jackson warehouse and factory and whatever. And, yeah, confiscated an awful lot of stuff, and Steve Jackson had to recuperate that loss over a fair bit of time, I think. And if you wanna find out what that all that happened there, it's actually, a large chunk of a book called The Hacker Crackdown by Bruce Sterling.
Andy:It's about 2 or 3 chapters based on it. So yeah.
Matthew:And it also featured on the cover of Crisis Magazine, or not that, but the story inspired by that story where one of the characters in the strip, 3rd World War, gets, arrested at an airport for having a a weapons guide to a role playing game or something in in his backpack.
Andy:Like that. Yeah.
Matthew:And I have the original artwork for that cover on my wall over there. Hello? I think as
Dave:Like, Paul is wanting to
Matthew:take a look at it. Way, Paul.
Paul W:You're gonna just say, at that time, Peter, Bruce, and I were writing stuff for Steve Jackson Games, which never got published because that bloody raid.
Bruce:Oh, my gosh. Really?
Dave:I hadn't realized I hadn't realized we've got, like, an FBI target in our midst, Paul. Okay. You have to be careful with that one.
Paul W:Yeah. I can't say much. No. Seriously, we were we were writing some some stuff for for them for for, and, it got completely trashed because of all of that because they had to shut down. So I think they were shut down handy for about a year or 18 months
Andy:or so. I I was just wondering if that why Baruzer never comes on cam because he's on the FBI's most wanted list or something.
Matthew:Maybe. Maybe. Paul, since we're on you, what's your, your weirdest bit of news from this last year, not from ancient times when you were
Dave:running out? From prison after being in prison since the eighties, isn't it, Paul?
Paul W:I mean, as far as role playing games are concerned, I think it's been a pretty strange year with what's going on with Watsy and and D and things. And and that's I don't think that's strange anymore. It's becoming the norm, which is which is really unfortunate. I I started in 1978 playing DND, and it was a a great role playing game and everybody enjoyed it. But it's been politicized more and more and more.
Paul W:And I think that's that's the thing that that really annoys me. It used to be a game for everybody and now it's becoming a game that's marginalizing itself by by virtue of the rules. A few of you have seen me do this and and you know that in the new players guide, they're they're putting in suggestions for various things that people should or shouldn't do. And and and to be honest, they're hilarious. If you've been role playing for any period of time, you you know the boundaries of your group, and what's acceptable and not acceptable.
Paul W:And I and I agree that if you're playing at a convention as a games master, you should be careful about what you're presenting. And and and and you should never really put anything well, I think any games master that runs a a game, a scenario, a convention with anything that's out of bounds, let's say, is a complete idiot. You know, you've gotta you've gotta cater for the the lowest denominator and and not not think that people are gonna immediately accept your demonic presence or whatever you wanna do. So I think that's the thing that shocked me the most. It's it's still like, oh my god.
Paul W:We've got to put all these boundaries in place now.
Matthew:I guess so. In their defense, given that they are, if you like, the most likely first game for new gamers, maybe maybe they do have a special role to play in talking about the safety tools and things. Because as you said, anybody who's been gaming for some time, kinda and particularly working with a group, you know, they know what their group's limits and and and fails are. But maybe a a a first game like that needs to make them explicit in a way they hadn't back in the seventies when we were playing. Douglas, you wanna
Dave:add something? Douglas.
Douglas:Yeah. I I play with, younger kids. I I play between, 12 15 year olds, none of which I've I've killed, just to make that clear. And Yet. Yes.
Douglas:Well, there's been times. But the kids, I don't like safety tools. I've said it before. I just don't I don't like them for the same arguments that Paul has just made. But at the same time, we, we are completely different society.
Douglas:And, and a different way that we've grown up. And the younger, the younger ones who are now turning into, teens and adults don't have, the filters, the ability, the social interactions, in my experience, to truly understand boundaries, that are innate in a lot of us that were back in the 70s, or eighties, but now have, everything is questioned. And so I think this is a larger societal issue, and it's just manifesting itself in what is a popular game, at this time.
Dave:I think that's definitely a thing. I mean, if if you're if you're if you're working in public or running a game in public with people that you don't know, then I think absolutely it makes absolute sense to to like Paul said, to go for the lowest common denominator, to make sure that what you're presenting isn't going to offend anybody. But in your own group, with people that you know and people that you've played with a long time, For example, there's some of the some of the characters that we play in some of the games in in mine and Matthew's group with Andy, our old friend Andy from school and my brother. I wouldn't dream of playing those characters or those kind of scenarios anywhere near a convention for for multiple reasons. But, you know, I would I would happily run Solomon Kane at a convention, but, obviously, it'd have to be different.
Dave:So I think it's very much a it was probably always the way, I think, but maybe they're I don't know. But maybe maybe people are now much more open and willing to to say, I don't like that. Whereas perhaps in the day, they might have gone, oh, I don't really like that internally. And then quite often, they would have got through it and enjoyed the game anyway, depending on what the whatever it was they didn't like.
Paul W:I in banking, there's a there's a premise which is know your client. And it's a it's a big thing about, you know, understanding what they're doing. And I think for a games master that's massively important is understanding your players and and what their boundaries are and allowing you to tailor a game for them, which is a lot easier if you've got your group and you know the people. And and he's horrendously hard if you if you're doing it at convention, which I always respect people like Bruce, that that that that run games at conventions. So, yeah, sorry.
Paul W:That was my bit. I apologize. I've got the run.
Douglas:I've had in in in Relden Ashes games, we often play with different individuals, and, I've appreciated actually being asked on his Discord what what the what is what is a nonstarter, one of which is violence against, pets. And it it is important to know. So I think that video aspect also requires at least something along the lines of the session 0.
Matthew:Yeah. And I think actually that is interesting in that, with more gaming online happening, I've always said that we we communicate face to face very differently with micro micro gestures that or mic micro words, micro syntax that you haven't heard because you got your mic switched off or whatever or gestures that that people can't see because they only look at you through a letterbox. So I think it's a lot more important for them for, for online as well. Jed, you're next in my line. I'm gonna have to slightly reorder this.
Matthew:But, Jed, what what's your most interesting or weirdest bit of news?
Jed:Most interesting this year, I think, was, Foundry's Ember demos
Dave:Mhmm.
Jed:Which really was a case of them creating an RPG, with the assumption it'll be on a VTT and fully integrated into the systems of a VTT rather than having a VTT that's trying to painfully adapt a very analog tabletop game into the digital space. And so just Mhmm. The implications of that and what that could actually be possible going forward kinda blew my mind a little bit. And
Matthew:part of me thinks that that's where Whatsy wants to head with Wizards of the Coast. Do you think, do you think that's true as well? Sorry. Whatsy wants to head with D and D. Do you think that's true?
Matthew:I mean because they have such demos of a a sort of VTT that was that was very animated. Yeah. But I can't it's yeah.
Jed:Yeah. It's like it's making a a virtual tabletop in the most literal sense, you know, where you actually have virtual miniatures that you move around and they behave like miniatures and you throw dice. And it's like, the whole thing is like a Dungeon Forge but digital. And what Amber was doing was more saying, what is what could the power of a computer do to make the GM's job of simulating a world so much easier by handling all those in a more abstract, more thoughtful kind of way.
Dave:It's very interesting because it it kind of one of the things just to just to jump off Jed's point now, and this is gonna, like, probably lead you into what I was gonna say a little Well, but one of the things I thought was interesting was the, what seems to me anyway to be the sudden preponderance of solo rules. And and I think also what you're talking about, you know, a game that's specifically designed as a game to be run on a VTT rather than at the table It's kind of in the same sort of ballpark in that, you know, how much how much is the game now moving into the digital sphere as opposed to staying around the table? I mean, for for people like me, I I love gaming online, but I don't love it as much as I love gaming around the table. But then I've spent the last 40 years gaming around the table. For people, you know, of peak generation who are a bit younger than most of us here, a lot of those will have gained online primarily rather than at a table.
Dave:So it's so oh, are we dinosaurs? Am I a dinosaur? And we'll be Yes.
Matthew:I know you are.
Dave:Well yeah. Well The
Matthew:rest of us is fine.
Dave:In but it's it's it's it's the kind of gamer that I am gonna become a, in a a endangered species, you know, in the next 10 or 20 years because so many people will be happier or just as happy to play online or play alone with a solo role if they don't get the other option.
Matthew:Yeah. And that's so is that you done as well then, Dave? Can I move on to Bruce?
Dave:Yes. I'm done.
Bruce:Try to think of something about the weird news. Actually, I'm gonna pick up because it's a slightly on the similar topic. But from the convention side, the interest of the RPG hobby appearing at other conventions, other events. So I was actually game mastering, music festival in Velodrome. Mhmm.
Bruce:There's a Comic Con as well. So it's not just this hobby is tightly within this area. It's actually moving out to other events. People want to play it now. Unfortunately, it does mean Dungeons and Dragons because of the popularity from the online videos, from all that.
Bruce:But that Colby in that game is expanding and blending. I think that's on the back end of pop pop culture, and we're seeing more and more, especially, other events. So it wouldn't be surprising that if you ever see, like, Glastonbury, they've ever done, they'll probably be at a weekend with RPGers and gamers in there.
Matthew:Mhmm. No. I think that is interesting, isn't it? And we've seen it in TV and stuff that we're a lot more accepted now. We aren't the geeks who are laughed at by the rugby team.
Matthew:Are we, Dave?
Dave:No. We're not anymore.
Matthew:It is That's because Dave was in rugby team as well as
Dave:I was. I was. I didn't tell him I role played. They ought to got the shit beaten out of me.
Matthew:So hold on. Well, I'm just ticking along my list here. Frank Frank, what's your most weird or most interesting bit of news?
Frank:Right. Most weird was, Elon Musk's intervention to try and save the
Matthew:That's mine. That's mine.
Frank:I'm not gonna say any more about that other than that was Well
Dave:done, Frank. I knew I knew somebody would beat Matthew to it.
Frank:And, most interesting maybe, is the most interesting, I don't know, but it was of interest to me was, that foundry who don't actually have a lot of official systems for anybody, now are getting official content for d and d. That for me was really like, hey. What? Moment. It's the only one I could think of.
Frank:There were probably other things, but I didn't know we had to answer this question. So take it away somebody else.
Matthew:Well, Joe, I I just gotta follow-up on I mean, we we've discussed Foundry already, and they they they seem to be the octopus getting their tentacles into everything, which is good because it's our favorite system, obviously. Dave and I are Luddites in this regard, but, it's the only one that we have commissioned Paul to create a content for. But yeah. No. Just Elon Musk.
Matthew:Elon fucking Musk. Threatening to buy Watsy because of, I don't know, wokeness or something. There there is this thing. There is this thing I have to come back to. If there's one thing you can say that is a real positive, I think is a positive for society, is that role playing has let people discover themselves.
Matthew:You know, if you're, at the very start you know, and I can speak to this. I have friends who, through role playing, you know, explored their trans journey before they, transitioned or whatever. So, you know, role playing has always been this inclusive hobby. Even even back in the seventies when, or or the eighties even when, by law, we weren't allowed to even talk about it at school. You know, people were talking about their sexuality and stuff like that in role playing games.
Matthew:So it's been a real important part of role playing. And now suddenly that that's woken shouldn't be allowed, and Elon Musk is gonna buy Watsy to make sure it never happens again. I don't think he is gonna buy Watsy, but but, you know, I I love the fact that he thinks by saying that he's gonna change what Watsy do. Anyway, so that's me. Frank, Dave, you're done.
Matthew:Paul, I think we've had you, other Paul as well. Both the Pauls double. Are we done on this topic? Has anybody noticed anything?
Dave:No. No. We are done. We are done on this topic. We are completely done on
Matthew:this topic. Convinced I heard Andy Britt talking before, but okay, Andy. Have a word. We're running out of time. I knew
Andy:I am very good. I was actually gonna say the obvious one, which no one seems to have mentioned, and I will frame this in context of my experience of the 2 hosts here. In that I remember years ago talking to Dave and Matt, and Matt saying, oh, I'd love to build a Wild West role playing game. And I think this was back in the nineties. And I think if you took that younger version of Matt and Dave and told them that 20, 30 years on, they'd be doing a successful 30 grand plus Kickstarter for a wild west role playing game, I think they would have both told me where to get off and said, no.
Andy:That wouldn't happen. Blah blah blah. Or at least maybe. I mean, maybe they saw it in their futures and didn't say much. But the the point is that I find that absolutely stunning, actually.
Andy:And I mean that because to have, I mean, all joking aside, I've known Matt and Dave for years. And to have 2 people succeed at the time that. And I hate you, man. But, anyway, you know, to have 2 people that I've known for a long time, I have that degree of success, I think, is commendable. And, yeah, I think that's yeah.
Andy:Okay, Bruce. Yeah.
Matthew:I'll tell you what I'd like to say was weird. What I'd like to say is weird is why did it take bloody 30 years?
Andy:Well, yeah. Well, I mean, you know No.
Matthew:I think I'm as surprised as you are, actually.
Dave:Well, I
Andy:am too. But but
Dave:maybe surprising. Maybe if 30 years ago, I think you'd said that to us, we'd have done it 30 years ago.
Douglas:I think that
Dave:we not. It was Kickstarter wouldn't have been around for about a year. No. No.
Andy:I think we we did try and build games back way back in the day, but I think we argued too much about what was gonna be in them. We've argued
Matthew:a lot. Haven't we, Dave?
Dave:We've argued a few times, actually. We've we've we've we've probably actually had our worst arguments. Okay.
Andy:This will get cut, but Dave and I have had more arguments than probably anyone else on this chat right now. And I'm like, oh,
Dave:back in the day. Back in the day.
Andy:Back in the day. Yeah.
Dave:No. But, I mean, the thing was, we used to we used to make a lot of game systems, or I certainly did. But then we'd run them, and, basically, all my so called mates, like Andy and Matt and the others, would just shit all over it. So it's like it's like they're not they're not the nice No.
Andy:I think it was constructive shitting, Dave. I don't think they just changed.
Dave:Back in the day, they weren't the nice guys that they are now. They've changed a lot. So there was well, there was one game, called Fields of Fire, which actually wasn't bad.
Andy:It was a great game, Dave.
Dave:But it had it had a couple of couple of slight errors in it.
Andy:So how
Matthew:how long does it take to throw
Andy:a grenade in Fields of Fire, Dave? Was it 2 rounds or 1? I I thought
Dave:it was it was 2. It was only 2 if you got
Andy:the initial blow up at the end of the round, though. So if you threw it, it would blow up before you threw it.
Dave:So so this is something
Matthew:that happened
Dave:when I was 18. 18, guys.
Matthew:This is sporty year of view. 2024, not 1984.
Andy:Anyway, my my point is still fans, but I think it's impressive that you've got
Dave:Thank you, Andy. I hope you've got the take your sense of it. And I appreciate it very much.
Andy:All joking in ancient rivalries and arguments overall aside, I think it's, yeah, it's a it's a big achievement. So well done, lads.
Dave:Thank you.
Matthew:Yeah. It doesn't mean we're not gonna miss you out next time as well though. Come on.
Andy:Anyway, where's my check?
Matthew:There is no check. Okay. So next topic
Dave:Where does the u zero engine go from here? That is our next topic.
Matthew:Doing the most exciting release then, Dave, which is next in our running order.
Andy:I have
Dave:to be quick.
Douglas:It took us 50 minutes just to get through, the first question.
Andy:Well, it's like like, 10 seconds a person then.
Matthew:Yeah. Because this one can be really quick. Just name a game you're most exciting, the thing you're looking forward to most in 2025, and we will start with you, Noble.
Paul V:Obviously, apart from Toto, which is obviously the most most impressive, the one I'm most excited for is Cosmere role playing game, which is the Brandon Sanderson, role playing game, which covers all his worlds. So is they they're covering both Mistborn and Stormlight Archive, which I'm really looking forward to.
Matthew:Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Dave, go on.
Matthew:Say it now.
Dave:Well, tells the odd west for me, but Yeah. It's it's it's it's an odd one because again, I won't linger on this too long. But having been I was warned about getting involved as a as a creator by Thomas and others about, you know, becoming the Poacher becoming gamekeeper. And you get so, like, completely flooded by stuff that you're working on. I haven't really had time to look and see what's coming next year to to to have an opinion on this question.
Dave:It's
Matthew:Except obviously for the research he does for World of Gaming every 2 weeks. You don't just go for not surprised, Dave. Well, I
Dave:did quite a lot of beforeing and being surprised. Yeah. But the thing I would say is I've got so many games from last year and previous years that I haven't played that I wanna play that actually not having something to look forward to next year is probably a good thing because it might mean I'll play one of those other games. Done.
Matthew:Brilliant. Andy Brick. No. Too late.
Andy:Alright. No. No. No. No.
Andy:That's not good.
Dave:Gotta be quicker than that, Andy.
Andy:No. The bloody button wouldn't work. Anyway, no. So, yeah. Obviously, Toto's because hotel's Yeah.
Matthew:Where it's
Andy:gotta be
Matthew:I mean, I know we said everybody's gotta say Toto, but you don't all have to say Toto.
Andy:Well, I'm still waiting on a check. No. Actually, I'm waiting for 2 things fixed here. I'm waiting
Matthew:for Mate, you didn't back Toto, so I don't know what you're waiting for.
Andy:So I'll get it a retail. Oh, it's, Detonction version 2. I'm I'm
Matthew:Yeah. Yeah.
Andy:Addition of that. I think it will be very, very good. And having seen the cover up for it with the Monad edition and things, it's something it's definitely something I want. And the other thing I'm looking forward to is hopefully the next part of the Splenite 2000 rebooted campaign, which I'm severely hoping will be based on Ruins of Warfall, because that would be logical. But, they may do going home or something else instead, so we'll see.
Matthew:I'm just coming back to desanction. I just wanna point out the shit that Alien got this year for having a second edition, only 5 years into its lifetime. Desanction.
Andy:Is 2, I think?
Matthew:2 years old, and nobody's giving a crap about having a second edition.
Andy:But to be fair, it's now going to be wrapped into the the umbrella of Sanction. So it's kind of evolved differently to Alien.
Dave:So it's desanction evolved, is it? Okay. Rather than Alien evolved.
Andy:That's right, Dave. Yeah.
Dave:Cool.
Frank:Maybe the sanctioned evolved. No.
Andy:But it is it is a different thing, really. So
Matthew:a nice intervention there, Frank. But what is your most looked forward to thing in 2025?
Frank:Probably, I'm gonna say 2, but I'm gonna make it brief again. Hexen in the English version. Really looking forward to that. Hexen, I've got it all here, but I can't play with you guys because you're too lazy to read German stuff. And the other one
Dave:Too lazy to learn German first and then read German stuff.
Frank:After having played and run a favorite or played one of this year, actually, Replicon Rebellion. I'm really looking forward to that.
Matthew:Bruce?
Bruce:Well, that that makes it quite challenging because I was gonna say Replicon Rebellion.
Matthew:You can say the same thing. You can say the same thing.
Bruce:Yeah. And as as well, because I've been running deals with the old west. Definitely, we're excited to see that in this final.
Paul V:Cool. Cool.
Matthew:Cool. Cool. Paul. Not Paul Venner. Paul.
Matthew:That's you, Paul. You.
Paul W:Oh, me. Alright. Sorry. Right. So a couple, anything by Craig Duffy.
Dave:There you go. Good call. A fantastic That is a
Matthew:good call.
Paul W:Yeah. Love it. I love everything he's done. Secondly, Space 1999, I think it's either gonna be absolutely terrific or, not so good.
Matthew:Not an
Dave:awful partnership.
Paul W:I'm not. I I'm I'm I'm sorry, but I'm not a fan of a lot of the systems by Wyndifius. That said, I got Dreams and Machines, and my son actually bought me the 2 books for for Christmas, and and it looks like a wonderful system. But, yeah, Space 1999 and, of course, Tales of the Old West because I don't wanna get banned.
Dave:Yeah. Actually won't get back because I I I write a fair chunk of Dreams and Machine, so I hope you like it.
Paul W:Well, that was the bit I didn't like, actually.
Dave:Well, fuck off then, Paul. Off you go.
Matthew:Jed, what about you?
Jed:Well, start off, of course, with Tales of the Old West, per rigor. The other one I would say is Vasen Carpathia.
Dave:Okay. Yeah.
Jed:I'm very excited with expanding the Vaasen world and, seeing if that could be turned into, like, a more, European wide campaign or something.
Matthew:Oh, yes. Yes. Great idea. Douglas?
Douglas:Yeah. I'm really looking forward to the Broken Empires. The Broken Empires is by a solo role player who's also a voice actor, and Trevor Duvall is his name, and, Evil Baby Games is, his publishing company. It's a lot of old school, rules that have been grabbed together. I'm really looking forward to it because he is a contemporary of most of us, and, and so I think the direction that he's, bringing the game, he calls it sim lite, kinda jingo y, but it's simulation, but it's, chunky enough.
Douglas:And so I'm really looking forward to that. I'm looking forward to it more than I thought. With f but with with fantasy or with, for free league, okay, for free league games, I think that we've really missed out on talking about Coriolis, because I am really on the fence about Coriolis, and I'm worried about the direction of that world. But I think Carpathia is going to just go high, high, high. I think it's gonna be awesome.
Douglas:It will bring back Vassen, which is just a a beautiful system.
Matthew:And finally, Pete.
Pete:Other than, the obligatory tales of the old west mentioned
Matthew:Well done.
Pete:Mythic battles Ragnarok. I enjoyed playtesting it. Yeah. I think I think it's different. I think it looks really good, and I had tremendous fun, playtesting it.
Pete:That that's that's all I've got to say about it, really. That's what I'm looking
Paul V:forward to.
Matthew:Cool. Another plug for you there, Dave, in mythic battles Ragnarok.
Dave:Okay. Cool.
Matthew:Being for Pete. Now, yes. So let's quickly we you brought up, Douglas, the, your polite disappointment over Corvio List of Great Dark. So let's just have a quick runaround again of, the future for the year zero engine. Dave, did you wanna start?
Dave:Yeah. So I think I think my comment was gonna be around, the the mechanics of the 2 dice system for year 0. Not having played it not having played it in twilight 2000, I was, I I guess, a bit, what's the word? I was a bit snobbish about it, I think. It's a bit oh, it can't be as good as, as the dice pool system.
Dave:The dice pool system works so well. Having played Blade Runner, it works it works really well. So, I think, you know, the year zero I mean, we could broaden the question. I mean, although that might broaden it too much. I mean, what we're talking about the year zero engine, which has got 2 iterants.
Dave:Free league obviously do other games with other systems, and not just the year zero engines. So there is a question maybe more broadly about where does Free League take their what they're doing? Does the year zero engine have legs? It gets used a lot. Obviously, we're just producing a game that uses the year zero engine.
Dave:I think I would quite like to see or maybe explore how the 2 dice version could be taken forward in a different way. I think the dice pool works so well, and there's been so many different variants of it now, that maybe we ought to be thinking about what can we do with the other version of the year zero engine rather than the dice pool in the future.
Matthew:Bruce, I think you might have thoughts on that.
Bruce:The step though, I think it's it's gonna be certainly something, but I think it's still gonna be quite tight. What I think might be evolved or certainly we might see more of is because we've already seen them walking dead. It's the threat with walkers for the dial. Mhmm. And that style is gonna be used because we've already seen a preview of it in Replicate Rebellion, which is forthcoming.
Bruce:And I wouldn't be surprised if we see something similar for a threat for Alien Evolved because I think that's something a way of tracking or showing the players. I'm just gonna turn the dial up just to show you you're now at this number. There's something obviously going on into it. I think that's gonna be another bit into the year zero engine side from it.
Dave:I think that's a really interesting comment because I I think the one thing that mechanically doesn't work terribly well in The Walking Dead is the threat. I think mechanically, it doesn't work very well. I think at the table, having the dial there and then turning it up as a GM does work as a psychological thing for the group. But actually, mechanically, in The Walking Dead, it's it's shit. So why they've got it?
Dave:I don't like it
Matthew:at all. Tell us what you really think, Dave.
Dave:I just I just think they've got the levels wrong and it it it escalates way too
Douglas:quickly. Escalates way too quickly. Yeah. But it's a great game. The kids love it.
Dave:Yeah. Yeah. I mean I mean, do you know Bruce in Blade Runner or or Frank or anybody else who's looked into rep rebellion, how are they gonna use that? Do you know?
Bruce:It's gonna be used for because the way I I envision Blade Runner, the core book with you being the LEPT Blade Runner unit, you're basically the hunters. And Replicant Rebellion, you're effectively the replicants on the ground.
Dave:After you. Yeah.
Bruce:Yeah. You are the prey. That's how I envision Blade Runner.
Frank:I believe there's a heat meter they're gonna use. Yeah. Essentially, so if you're doing high profile things and you get noticed, there's like a heat meter.
Dave:Ah, okay. Yeah.
Frank:Noticed by the authorities.
Bruce:Yeah. If you blow up stuff
Dave:So the more you do, the more likely you are gonna get colored. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Again, I think I think the principle is great, but in in Walking Dead, as you said, it it escalates way too quickly on a scale of 0 to 6 or 1 to 6.
Dave:It escalates by 3, and it doesn't really go anywhere else other than that. But, if yeah. I think psychologically, it has a great effect.
Matthew:And, Douglas, do you want to talk a little bit you you've made some comments in the chat, I noticed, on, it's not the game. It's the, it's the world you're not enjoying so much in The Great Dark. I just wanna say, you know, one of the interesting evolutions of the, 0 engine is getting rid of skills, just having attributes and talents. But what are your thoughts on the mechanics of the great dark?
Douglas:I I think that I think that they're the evolution of, of the traditional, year zero engine dice system. Mhmm. Very different from the 2 dice blade runner, type of implementation. It's the world, and the distance between, Coriolis
Matthew:Where we were in the 3rd horizon, do you mean?
Douglas:In the 3rd horizon to this kind of future, more exploring, more Jacques Cousteau, let's go and and delve deep. It just seems like a different game, a different genre, but I think the mechanics are the way that they're going to move forward because so many games now are skill based. So but I'm I'm just I'm still on the fence whether or not I'm gonna love it. I backed it. I backed it to the teeth, but I'm apprehensive looking at it.
Douglas:And I and I don't know. I'm really weird. I have this issue with the bird again. Like, why are you imposing this on us with the canary in the coal mine? It it it seems I don't know.
Douglas:It it seems forced upon us. But I understand why because you're doing a delve. It just it irks me for some reason. I don't know why.
Dave:I do wonder where the so I go, go on Paul and Paul Paul Watson had his hand up first, I think. Go there and then and then the other Paul before me.
Paul W:Really quick. The thing that attracted me, Coriolis, was the the world and the environment, and I don't get that from the great dark. I mean, I I like like Douglas, I I I backed it, but I just don't get that world. The the world in Coriolis is absolutely fantastic. It's years years years worth of playing if you don't follow the the campaign.
Dave:Yeah.
Paul V:Well, I'm the same. I did not back well, I canceled my back back backing of, Curious the Great Dark because it was just I think it's endemic with 3 league is they like narrow focused games now. They want a narrow focused game where I like games with thousands of seeds of ideas, and you can just run with in any direction, which is what Coriolis The Third Horizon was. Yeah. It was brilliant.
Paul V:And there's just so many things I just do not like in the great dark or what they did, which is it would it I just can't I I know I mean, I I I love Correia so much, and I'm I I shocked myself when I canceled my my my my my, my backing of it.
Dave:I think it's interesting. I haven't looked at the, at the PDF or anything, so I'm I'm I'm talking really from the basis of not much knowledge. But the the the the idea that skills are replaced with talents, it just seems seems to me simply to be leading us back to the day where you've got hundreds of skills.
Matthew:Yeah. It's it's nice. If you
Dave:if you need a talent, which is basically gonna replace a skill, you end up needing a lot more of them because talents tend to be quite specific. So you end up actually back in the day with loads and loads of skills, which is one of the great things step. Which we've got away from. Yeah. Exactly.
Andy:Because
Paul V:that was the that's every year. Okay. Isn't it? The whole year, it's it's like a limited skill list. So you you you know, 12 or 16 skills, and that's it.
Paul V:That's all you need. And they've just moved away from that. I think it's a huge backward step.
Dave:I think that Frank, but, you know, you've just commented in the text. Did you wanna just just make that comment? Because that that is a good comment though. That is a good thing.
Andy:I
Frank:think you need to keep in mind that we have seen an alpha and the beta has just been out, I think, a couple of days ago for or a week ago for the great dark.
Matthew:And not even a complete beta. Actually, it hasn't even matched. Beta is not in it,
Frank:for example. Don't bury it before it's been born.
Dave:No. That's a good comment.
Frank:Yeah. We had our 4 d scan or whatever. That was about it. We don't know anything more than that. So I definitely I'm I'm slightly underwhelmed by what I've seen so far, but it doesn't mean that it's not gonna be good.
Frank:And I appreciate that the authors are trying to get to the feel of what they started with Coriolis. So if you have read the the rim would reach, scenario setting, so source book from ancient Coriolis first edition,
Matthew:Well, I would need it, but it would need to be translated into English, Frank. Oh, but you translated it.
Frank:And you can never Sorry. Be what you want. So
Dave:No. I I I think I think I the link
Matthew:in the show notes.
Dave:I think there's there's definitely I think the disappointment of realizing that that the new Coriolis game wasn't building directly on the old Coriolis game and a lot of the old stuff that we love so much was being ditched. I think that disappointment has colored kind of my anticipation or excitement about the game. I didn't I I did back it. I haven't canceled my back, so I'm still gonna get it and we'll give it a good read when I get it in hardback. Yeah.
Dave:Isn't it? Yeah.
Douglas:Oh, sorry, Dave. I didn't mean to interrupt, but isn't it odd that the criticisms for Dungeons and Dragons, whatever this edition is called this year, is it hasn't changed enough for a lot of, critics. It's still the same old, and yet here we are, and myself in particular criticizing the great dark, for changing too much. And and are we looking for a happy medium of enough change and what is enough change and what isn't? And so it's just it's it's it's fascinating to see the way the community everybody's expectations are so so very different and everybody seems to have, educated opinions as opposed to the eighties nineties where we were just learning about, the hobby.
Frank:A brief parallel. In Germany, there's a the oldest German language role playing game is called Midgar, and it has been run by the same couple, basically, from 1st edition 1981 or something all the way to this year. 5 editions are out. And the 6th one, they handed off to another publisher, and they basically are reinventing it. So they create an a a parallel world which split up from the other one, like, 2, 2 and a half 1000 years ago.
Frank:So they get rid of all the old setting stuff, and they actually kept the core of the old rules. But for instance, they got rid of attributes. So they kept, talents and skills, if you like, but they got rid of attributes. That was also quite interesting to see. But there's a lot of, discussion about, oh, no.
Frank:What have they done? I love my old world, and it was so much for development. I want to keep it. But it was also an entrance hurdle for new players coming. Just couldn't get the head around all this stuff that has gone on.
Frank:To be honest, if you pick up Coriolis and you read the book and then you say, I'm gonna run the campaign, you might as well not have read all the campaign setting because by the end of the campaign sorry. The the the core rule book, I mean, the world's stuff gets thrown away.
Dave:Yeah. So
Andy:there's a precedent for where this guy in the in the previous companies. I'm I'm gonna make the comparison between Carrier, the Great Dog, and Trevor T and E because it is the same sort of thing to me. It's changing the rule set.
Matthew:She's traveled in the new era.
Andy:Yeah. It was. And it was changing the rule set. It was changing the background, and it was universally panned by traveler fans at the time. And then it sort of gained in popularity, and people began to like it, and then GDW went under anyway.
Andy:But it it feels to me similar. It's like this, you know, I think it's this, this desire to change things and tweak things continuously that people have, and the desire to, okay, well, we've done the 3rd horizon, that's boring. Let's go and do something else now. You know. And also, I think there's a purely cynical aspect that, you know, they want to keep selling books.
Andy:And the only way they sell books is by doing different content.
Matthew:Yeah. New stuff.
Andy:You know, I mean, it's it's the same argument, isn't it? It's always been, you know and, yes, Douglas and Bruce, if you want to pan second edition, please thank you. Feel free. I I haven't even seen anything other than the cover. So
Matthew:Hold on, Paul. I just wanna give one one word to Jed on traveler. Jed. Traveler, yes or no?
Jed:Sorry. Don't understand the question. No. What?
Matthew:I and so, our our traveler nerd here, Andy, has been banging on about how good Traveler is, And I thought I might
Bruce:come through a great opinion
Matthew:from for 40 years from you, Jed. So I'm gonna proceed to give a comment.
Jed:So Traveler was the first game I bought with my own money. I remember I walked to the bookstore 1 August and picked up the, I think, the deluxe edition box set and then never actually was able to run it. And it just kind of, like, disappeared. Never could get my friends to, like, put down their sword and pick up their cutlass. And so this year, after the election, my gaming group decided we did wanna keep doing, you know, like, Delta Green or anything kind of, like, modern or grim.
Jed:Instead, they wanted to get into a rocket ship and go off into space. And so that's what we've been doing is figuring out the the mongoose traveler rules and kinda coming up with a goofy, cowboy bebop style version of a traveler campaign.
Dave:And the 2 d
Jed:3 d 6 system is rock solid, though.
Andy:That's a
Matthew:Isn't it just isn't it?
Douglas:Yeah. That's an awesome observation that that because I'm in Canada. You're in the States. But around the world, we're we're we're there's a lot of shit going on. Do you think that that's gonna affect the way people play games, and are they going to move away from playing darker games to to playing more humorous games?
Andy:It's already happened, hasn't it? Because, I mean, Twilight 2000, for a long time, I was very wary about doing anything with it, thanks to the situation in Ukraine.
Bruce:Mhmm. I
Andy:mean, in twilight 2000, the bad guys are effectively Ukrainians. So it's, you know, it's very hard to to play a game where you're gleefully shooting down Ukrainians as members of the US forces or whatever, when in the real world, the Russians are doing exactly the same. You know, it's very hard to do. In the end, I mean, the the compromise that I came up with was to set the game somewhere else in the world because I couldn't use that area as much as I wanted to because that's where Twilight's always been set. It's the the sort of east west border.
Andy:So yeah.
Dave:Yeah.
Andy:It's difficult, I think. So, yeah, I think there has been the the the situation in the world does reflect in the world of gaming and vice versa. I don't think you can separate them really because people live in both. So there you go.
Matthew:Very, just a quick quick word from you about something else, in the future of year 0. Do you want to quickly say what you think?
Bruce:Yeah. I think we're gonna see more miniature lines because we saw mutant zone Boris come out for it.
Andy:Yeah.
Bruce:We know that alien evolved is gonna have rules for your skirmish game. Theoretically, I'm I'm joking about this one, but I know in the asset pack in blade runner, you can get standees for it. So you could theoretically do that one, but I think that'll be a very short game when you go in the critical table for that.
Andy:Mhmm. Yeah.
Matthew:Mate, Miniatures, who can tell what the future will hold? It's been a real pleasure, having everybody here talking with us. There is just one thing we're gonna do. What we'd like is for, when Dave and I sign off, for everybody to say, may the darkness bless your adventures. Okay?
Matthew:It's gonna be and you're gonna do more
Dave:things as soon
Matthew:as I know.
Dave:Are you are you are you changing the sign offline?
Bruce:Darkness? Well,
Matthew:it's icons. It is icons. You're right. No. No.
Matthew:I'm fitting cheap in gosh.
Andy:Okay. When when that's taken
Dave:May may may you murder more children in your
Douglas:Oh, I'm so regretting.
Andy:I I can sincerely hope that no one in your parish or whatever Douglas ever watches this or listens to it.
Douglas:I really hope not.
Dave:Right. So the the usual sign off, may the icons bless your adventures. Yeah? We're ready? All on 3.
Andy:123. May I
Paul V:bless your adventures.
Dave:You have been listening to the Effect podcast presented by Fiction Suit and the RPG Gods. Music stars on a black sea used with permission of Free League Publishing.